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By request, I am holding forth on the ways that Donald Trump and Joseph Smith are similar and dissimilar. Hopefully this doesn't get me into too much trouble. I try to be fair, but I also can't help but reveal some of my opinions. If something thought provoking is said along the way, maybe it was worth it.

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 4:15 pm

I think one of the good points you made that isn't discussed much is the positive thinking mentality. That's probably their biggest similarity.

One difference is that Joseph Smith was an actual ladies man. Wrong as he may have been, women found him attractive. Trump resorts to rape or paying.

Along those same lines, Smith was a positive hero, Trump is a negative hero. Part of that isn't just being bad, but he's a buffoon.

I don't think they are both cult leaders. I started a thread a while back on why I think Mormonism is a cult. I do not think MAGA or Trump supporters in general are part of a cult. Trump is a cult of personality, of course. But he's the guy to "unite the right" so to speak, in other words, people who are very different can find their place under Trump. You can be a neo-Nazi who hates Trump because he's not extreme enough, but you're still a Trumper in the end, or you can be a rich guy who only cares about taxes. The folks wearing all the MAGA gear are one stripe, and they can't even fill a fraction of a stadium anymore.

drumdude wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:09 pm

Are there other authors who have written about Trump’s relationship with the New Thought Movement? This is the first I’m hearing about it, and I’d love to learn more.

Donald Trump’s relationship with Peale is not a secret, even if it is not often discussed. Peale and Trump shared mutual admiration for each other; Peale had said that Donald Trump was his best student; Trump has credited everything he knows about business to Peale.11 Trump has waxed nostalgic for Peale, praising his commanding presence and authority in the church. During the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump claimed membership at Peale’s Marble Collegiate Church in New York City, a claim which the church denied; Trump apparently ended his connection with the church after Peale’s death; Trump’s parents’ funerals were both held at Marble Collegiate Church; one of Trump’s marriages was officiated by Peale at Marble Collegiate.12

At the end of the nineteenth century, strands of the new science of psychology came together with religious and esoteric currents to convince a growing number of people they could use their imaginations to create alternative worlds in which pain and suffering ceased and prosperity was within the grasp of anyone who thought positively enough.1 These ideas coalesced in the movement that came to be known as New Thought (Haller, 2010; Horowitz, 2014; Martin, 2015; Satter, 1998). While initially a white middle-class phenomenon, New Thought quickly spread and attracted individuals from all classes and ethnicities. Marcus Garvey (1887–1940) and Father Divine (1879–1965) created black versions, which, in Father Divine’s case, integrated whites and African Americans in what grew from a small African American congregation in the United States to a multiracial, inter- national organisation. On the basis of a sermon by Father Divine entitled ‘Accen- tuate the Positive and Eliminate the Negative’, Johnny Mercer and Harlan Arlen wrote the popular song ‘Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate the Positive’, which was performed by Bing Crosby and the Andrew sisters in 1944 and nominated for the ‘Acad- emy Award for Best Original Song’ the following year. From its modest begin- nings, New Thought spread globally throughout the twentieth century and until today in the form of New Age, Unity, and Prosperity churches and institutions promoting New Age and New Thought teachings (Sutcliffe, 2003; Haller, 2012; Anderson and Whitehouse, 2003). In 1952, Norman Vincent Peale (1898–1993) published The Power of Positive Thinking, which repackaged New Thought in a catchy phrase and sold more copies in the United States than any nonfiction book except the Bible (Lane, 2016). Most people are not aware that Donald Trump’s father, Fred Trump, joined Peale’s Marble Collegiate Church in New York City.

Kish wrote:Some refused him flat out, and so he savaged their reputations. I see more in common with Trump here than you do.

Kish wrote:Maybe. I think there is a populist element in Smith's appeal in his time. His anti-intellectualism and plain speaking about the gospel are part of the appeal.

Kish wrote:As you know, I am not committed to the blanket usefulness of the word cult, but I concede that it has *some* usefulness in popular parlance to protect people from religious extremism

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:25 pm

drumdude wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:09 pm

Are there other authors who have written about Trump’s relationship with the New Thought Movement? This is the first I’m hearing about it, and I’d love to learn more.

https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/server/api/ ... 5d/content

Donald Trump’s relationship with Peale is not a secret, even if it is not often discussed. Peale and Trump shared mutual admiration for each other; Peale had said that Donald Trump was his best student; Trump has credited everything he knows about business to Peale.11 Trump has waxed nostalgic for Peale, praising his commanding presence and authority in the church. During the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump claimed membership at Peale’s Marble Collegiate Church in New York City, a claim which the church denied; Trump apparently ended his connection with the church after Peale’s death; Trump’s parents’ funerals were both held at Marble Collegiate Church; one of Trump’s marriages was officiated by Peale at Marble Collegiate.12

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/1 ... GGSLRBV4ZA

At the end of the nineteenth century, strands of the new science of psychology came together with religious and esoteric currents to convince a growing number of people they could use their imaginations to create alternative worlds in which pain and suffering ceased and prosperity was within the grasp of anyone who thought positively enough.1 These ideas coalesced in the movement that came to be known as New Thought (Haller, 2010; Horowitz, 2014; Martin, 2015; Satter, 1998). While initially a white middle-class phenomenon, New Thought quickly spread and attracted individuals from all classes and ethnicities. Marcus Garvey (1887–1940) and Father Divine (1879–1965) created black versions, which, in Father Divine’s case, integrated whites and African Americans in what grew from a small African American congregation in the United States to a multiracial, inter- national organisation. On the basis of a sermon by Father Divine entitled ‘Accen- tuate the Positive and Eliminate the Negative’, Johnny Mercer and Harlan Arlen wrote the popular song ‘Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate the Positive’, which was performed by Bing Crosby and the Andrew sisters in 1944 and nominated for the ‘Acad- emy Award for Best Original Song’ the following year. From its modest begin- nings, New Thought spread globally throughout the twentieth century and until today in the form of New Age, Unity, and Prosperity churches and institutions promoting New Age and New Thought teachings (Sutcliffe, 2003; Haller, 2012; Anderson and Whitehouse, 2003). In 1952, Norman Vincent Peale (1898–1993) published The Power of Positive Thinking, which repackaged New Thought in a catchy phrase and sold more copies in the United States than any nonfiction book except the Bible (Lane, 2016). Most people are not aware that Donald Trump’s father, Fred Trump, joined Peale’s Marble Collegiate Church in New York City.

drumdude wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:30 pm

Thanks!

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:26 pm

Oh, I forgot to mention the other part that was very perceptive that I had never thought about, that Joseph "shared the wealth" as it were with his close followers in terms of polygamy etc. This is a great topic, actually, to what extent was Joseph a one-way street? Trump seems excessively so. In fact, one of Trump's major ploys is his vast experience shielding himself with lawyers. And he always has a way out to avoid personal responsibility and send his friends to prison without a second thought. His followers seem to think it's worth the risk. It might be that "positive thinking" again, like-minded followers get in on the grift thinking they'll be okay. But I am curious to what extent Joseph threw his associates under the bus to save himself?