Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

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Moksha
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Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

Post by Moksha »

Are all LDS Church teachings malleable (soft, pliable, changeable)?
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I Have Questions
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Re: Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

Post by I Have Questions »

Yes. Except tithing. And the one where Leaders can’t be wrong, even when they’re wrong.
1. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable. 2. The best evidence for The Book of Mormon is eye witness testimony, therefore… 3.The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is a type of evidence that is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

Post by drumdude »

John Larson had an excellent take on this somewhere. His argument that there’s essentially nothing in Mormonism that hasn’t changed. The restoration itself has been completely restored nearly to the point it would be unrecognizable to Joseph Smith.
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Re: Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

Post by I Have Questions »

Oaks has explained this. Some commandments are permanent and some are temporary. Commandments are permanent unless or until they become temporary, as decided by Oaks and his chums.
1. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable. 2. The best evidence for The Book of Mormon is eye witness testimony, therefore… 3.The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is a type of evidence that is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

Post by 2bizE »

I believe every doctrine, belief, policy, commandment, guideline, idea, concept, denial, acceptance, understanding, faith promoting story, concern, inkling, etc in Mormonism is subject to change. For example, could the church say “we now need tithing to be 20% of your gross income so we can quickly build out Ensign Peaks accounts to $1 trillion” then that could be changed.
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sock puppet
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Re: Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

Post by sock puppet »

Moksha wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2024 2:16 am
Are all LDS Church teachings malleable (soft, pliable, changeable)?
Do you believe in the tale of the First Vision? Which version?
"Apologists try to shill an explanation to questioning members as though science and reason really explain and buttress their professed faith. It [sic] does not. ...faith is the antithesis of science and reason." Critic as quoted by Peterson, Daniel C. (2010) FARMS Review, Intro., v22:2,2.
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Moksha
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Re: Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

Post by Moksha »

sock puppet wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2024 7:16 pm
Do you believe in the tale of the First Vision? Which version?
The first version reveals the original story and the subsequent ones seem an embellishment to fit Joseph's circumstances at the time. Sort of when Alice was tiny and when she was 10 feet tall, the story adapts to fit the occasion.

An interesting tale is that Mormons are fallen angels who were not good enough to stay in heaven but were not bad enough for hell. So, being a Mormon is a kind of eternal limbo for them until they can regain their sealskin and return to the sea.

Another tale is that the Angel Moroni was a manifestation of Bigfoot.
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Re: Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

Post by Dr. Sunstoned »

I Have Questions wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:22 am
Yes. Except tithing. And the one where Leaders can’t be wrong, even when they’re wrong.
Don't forget blind obedience. That one is pretty solid.
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Re: Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

Post by MG 2.0 »

Moksha wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2024 2:16 am
Are all LDS Church teachings malleable (soft, pliable, changeable)?
This is a book I read years ago. It encapsulates some of the doctrinal developments that you may be referring to:

https://www.amazon.com/This-My-Doctrine ... 759&nodl=1

Regards,
MG
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Re: Are all Church Teachings Malleable?

Post by Morley »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:11 pm
Moksha wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2024 2:16 am
Are all LDS Church teachings malleable (soft, pliable, changeable)?
This is a book I read years ago. It encapsulates some of the doctrinal developments that you may be referring to:

https://www.amazon.com/This-My-Doctrine ... 759&nodl=1

Regards,
MG
Nice link.

I agree with one of the top reviewers of this book (who, by the way, mentions you by name):
Lane

5.0 out of 5 stars Clears up a lot of messiness in Church doctrine

Reviewed in the United States on May 29, 2019

This is the best book out there if you want to understand the evolution of Mormon doctrine. About 35 years ago, it started to dawn on me that the Church declared absolute truth statements over time that have contradicted absolute truth statements made now. I lost my faith in relatively short order, the process having commenced during my five-year service as a bishop. To my way of thinking, the Church makes greater epistemological mistakes than I'm capable of, and seriously complicates a thinking person's life in the process. So, I figured, it's best to just grow a pair and strike out on your own. I always look back fondly, but my life has been greatly blessed by the mental clarity acquired by not having to bend the facts to the doctrine de jour, all the time. I'm that guy who hits church about half the time, sits in the back, and turns down Church callings, except for scouting and the ward Santa Claus (40 years running...). I keep my family together.

As I read the book, I kept wondering if I had had Harrell's book to frame the issue as he sees it, would I have kept the faith. I conclude that it would have made no difference, because, to my mind, my conscience has infinitely more value than the entirety of the Mormon Church. Institutions come and go, and while it's quite a struggle keeping above the fray, it's worth the effort in this life to seek clarity over the contingencies of one's particular circumstances. I had a wonderful life growing up in my little Mormon town and I loved my mission, but when it became apparent that the Church was not what I had thought it was, the mental gymnastics required to continue to conform to it ate away at my humanity. So, while this is not the case with everyone, I thought Brother Harrell's book was an uplifting exercise for me, and worthwhile for anyone interested in the evolution of Mormon theology. So, thanks for this work of immense erudition.
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