Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
User avatar
Everybody Wang Chung
God
Posts: 2188
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:52 am

Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

There is a very interesting and controversial article in today's Salt Lake Tribune about Mormons doing nothing while evil [Trump] triumphs. Just like Mormons in Germany did with Hitler.

The article:
After Trump’s election, Latter-day Saints are again on the wrong side of history. Most church members were accommodationists in Nazi Germany. While they may not embrace all of Trump’s agenda, today’s Latter-day Saints are enabling the unseemly elements of his platform.

By Jana Riess | Religion News Service
| Nov. 12, 2024, 6:00 a.m.

The Public Religion Research Institute released its annual American Values Survey last month, just in time for the presidential election. One finding in particular jumped out at me: Nearly a third of U.S. Latter-day Saints agree that immigrants are “poisoning the blood” of the nation.

PRRI likely added this question because President-elect Donald Trump used the phrase in his political campaign speeches at least once. “They’re poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump said in December 2023 at a rally in New Hampshire. “That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world.”

This idea of undesirable people “poisoning” the blood of a nation dates back nearly a century to another populist leader, a guy by the name of Adolf Hitler, as President Joe Biden pointed out in response to Trump’s comment.

The comparison is worth examining now that we are awaiting a second Trump administration. Ordinary Germans who viewed themselves as good people — people who took casseroles to sick neighbors and attended church regularly — voted for Hitler in large numbers. They did so because he promised an end to their economic woes and vowed to make their nation one the world would have to respect again.

Not coincidentally, he also gave them convenient scapegoats for all the things that were wrong with their country — Jews, Roma people, sexual minorities, people of color. Anyone with “impure” blood. Anyone who did not belong in his vision, anyone with “poison” in their veins.

Last winter, when I was in Germany, I visited the vast site of the Nazi Party Rally Grounds outside the city of Nuremberg, where Nazi Party leaders were tried in the years after the war ended and sentenced for war crimes.

What I did not realize is that Nuremberg was strategically selected to be the site of those trials because the city had been such a stronghold of Nazism in the 1930s. The sprawling grounds and enormous stadiums attest to that. This was where thousands of Nazis convened each summer for party rallies, Hitler Youth competitions and events, family camps and military parades.

It’s a chilling place to see, and remember.

It’s likely that there were eager Latter-day Saints at those rallies. According to historian David Conley Nelson, most German Latter-day Saints were accommodationists of the Hitler regime, to varying degrees. The one German Latter-day Saint we have chosen to remember is one who resisted: teenage martyr Helmuth Hübener, the youngest resistance fighter to be executed for opposing the Nazi regime. We love his story, the fact that he sacrificed everything to be on the right side of justice, living out the gospel with everything he had.

But his branch president, who led Hübener’s congregation in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, “excommunicated” him for standing up to Hitler.

[The removal was mostly on paper, and his membership was quickly restored after the war. Read more about Hübener.]

(Gedenkstätte Deutscher Widerstand) An undated photograph of Helmuth Hübener, a Latter-day Saint teen who resisted Hitler and was executed.

Again: Most church members in Germany were accommodationists. In fact, two of the saddest episodes that emerge in Nelson’s historical research relate to how obsequiously German Latter-day Saints sought to make themselves useful to the Nazi regime by helping Nazis with two things the members were very good at: basketball and genealogy.

In 1935 and 1936, Latter-day Saint missionaries helped teach the German national team how to play basketball so the players could compete in the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games, the first to include basketball as a medal competition. They were apparently delighted to share their knowledge.

Throughout the 1930s, German church members employed their talents at genealogical research to assist fellow Germans in finding their ancestors — not for the usual reason of linking families together forever in the eternities, but for the much darker purpose of proving their Aryan ancestry. Germans living under Hitler’s regime had to demonstrate their “biological purity, free of ‘racial pollution’ or the ‘corrupting blood’ of Jews or others Hitler considered to be inferior,” Nelson writes. And Latter-day Saints, with their expertise in family history, were only too happy to help Germans verify their racial superiority.

Which brings us back to blood poisoning. I don’t think a majority of U.S. Latter-day Saints who voted for Trump did so because they were hoping to rid the nation of impure blood. Most likely did it because they believed Trump’s rhetoric about the economy.

But in doing so, they have nonetheless accommodated the other elements of Trump’s platform. That includes the scapegoating of immigrants, comparing them to animals (with animal and insect comparisons being step one in the dehumanization process necessary for their removal).

Our people are once again on the wrong side of justice, the wrong side of the gospel and the wrong side of history.

(Jeremy Harmon | The Salt Lake Tribune) Religion News Service columnist Jana Riess in 2019.

(The views expressed in this opinion piece do not necessarily reflect those of Religion News Service.)

By Jana Riess | Religion News Service
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2024/11 ... atter-day/

I've wondered if Mormonism were truly about gathering Israel then wouldn't the Prophet have been petitioning the government to allow Utah to become a refuge for Jews fleeing Nazi Germany? Wouldn't the Prophet have financed the immigration process? Wouldn't the Prophet have been encouraging members in Germany to resist Hitler and Nazism? And wouldn't God have protected them in doing so? Wouldn't the Prophet had warned the Jewish people to flee before the Holocaust happened? Wouldn't the Prophet had anything to help the Jewish people?
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 7083
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

Post by Moksha »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2024 7:22 pm
I've wondered if Mormonism were truly about gathering Israel then wouldn't the Prophet have been petitioning the government to allow Utah to become a refuge for Jews fleeing Nazi Germany? Wouldn't the Prophet have financed the immigration process? Wouldn't the Prophet have been encouraging members in Germany to resist Hitler and Nazism? And wouldn't God have protected them in doing so? Wouldn't the Prophet had warned the Jewish people to flee before the Holocaust happened? Wouldn't the Prophet had anything to help the Jewish people?
There wasn't any way the Brethren could have foreseen the terrible crimes of the Holocaust. Besides, one of the apostles J. Reuben Clark was still handing out the anti-semitic book Protocols of the Elders of Zion, full of bigoted anti-Jewish lies to those around him. I doubt they would have wanted a bunch of Jews in Zion.

I think the Brethren still hold this view because they named the BYU Law School after J. Reuben Clark.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
I Have Questions
God
Posts: 1212
Joined: Tue May 23, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

Post by I Have Questions »

As a church leader, Clark resisted the social integration of whites and blacks and strongly opposed interracial marriage, explaining in a 1949 letter: "Since they are not entitled to the Priesthood, the Church discourages social intercourse with the negro race, because such intercourse leads to marriage, and the offspring possess negro blood and is therefore subject to the inhibition set out in our Scripture."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Reuben_Clark

The racist J. Reuben Clark may be dead, but the racist scripture he used to justify himself is still in the canon today.
Quinn notes that "there was one ethnic group, however, for whom Reuben expressed lifelong dislike and distrust—the Jewish people."[53] According to Quinn, Clark kept several copies of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in his personal library and shared it and other anti-Semitic publications with colleagues and acquaintances.[54] He expressed anti-Semitic attitudes in "code words publicly and in specifics privately" and used his church position to obstruct what he perceived as "Jewish influence."[55] After Nazi Germany's annexation of Austria, Clark denied desperate pleas by Austrian Mormon converts from Judaism who sought the church's help in emigrating to safety.
Utter scumbag.

The BYU Law School must be proud of their name.
1. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable. 2. The best evidence for The Book of Mormon is eye witness testimony, therefore… 3.The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is a type of evidence that is notoriously unreliable.
User avatar
IWMP
Pirate
Posts: 1640
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:46 pm

Re: Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

Post by IWMP »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2024 7:22 pm
There is a very interesting and controversial article in today's Salt Lake Tribune about Mormons doing nothing while evil [Trump] triumphs. Just like Mormons in Germany did with Hitler.

The article:

[SNIP!]

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2024/11 ... atter-day/

I've wondered if Mormonism were truly about gathering Israel then wouldn't the Prophet have been petitioning the government to allow Utah to become a refuge for Jews fleeing Nazi Germany? Wouldn't the Prophet have financed the immigration process? Wouldn't the Prophet have been encouraging members in Germany to resist Hitler and Nazism? And wouldn't God have protected them in doing so? Wouldn't the Prophet had warned the Jewish people to flee before the Holocaust happened? Wouldn't the Prophet had anything to help the Jewish people?
Not taking sides because I know nothing about your politics. Just came to say that I doubt Trump would deliberately murder and call for people to be murdered in the way Hitler did. And I doubt he will actually try to claim other countries as his own. Does sound racist in the above though.
User avatar
IWMP
Pirate
Posts: 1640
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:46 pm

Re: Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

Post by IWMP »

I Have Questions wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2024 11:24 am
As a church leader, Clark resisted the social integration of whites and blacks and strongly opposed interracial marriage, explaining in a 1949 letter: "Since they are not entitled to the Priesthood, the Church discourages social intercourse with the negro race, because such intercourse leads to marriage, and the offspring possess negro blood and is therefore subject to the inhibition set out in our Scripture."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Reuben_Clark

The racist J. Reuben Clark may be dead, but the racist scripture he used to justify himself is still in the canon today.
Quinn notes that "there was one ethnic group, however, for whom Reuben expressed lifelong dislike and distrust—the Jewish people."[53] According to Quinn, Clark kept several copies of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in his personal library and shared it and other anti-Semitic publications with colleagues and acquaintances.[54] He expressed anti-Semitic attitudes in "code words publicly and in specifics privately" and used his church position to obstruct what he perceived as "Jewish influence."[55] After Nazi Germany's annexation of Austria, Clark denied desperate pleas by Austrian Mormon converts from Judaism who sought the church's help in emigrating to safety.
Utter scumbag.

The BYU Law School must be proud of their name.
That's awful.
User avatar
Dr. Sunstoned
Teacher
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:59 am

Re: Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

Post by Dr. Sunstoned »

IWMP wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2024 11:36 am
Not taking sides because I know nothing about your politics. Just came to say that I doubt Trump would deliberately murder and call for people to be murdered in the way Hitler did. And I doubt he will actually try to claim other countries as his own. Does sound racist in the above though.
Well, he did make a play for Greenland. So there's that.
User avatar
IWMP
Pirate
Posts: 1640
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:46 pm

Re: Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

Post by IWMP »

Dr. Sunstoned wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:42 am
IWMP wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2024 11:36 am
Not taking sides because I know nothing about your politics. Just came to say that I doubt Trump would deliberately murder and call for people to be murdered in the way Hitler did. And I doubt he will actually try to claim other countries as his own. Does sound racist in the above though.
Well, he did make a play for Greenland. So there's that.
That's just greedy.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 7083
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

Post by Moksha »

IWMP wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2024 11:28 am
Dr. Sunstoned wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:42 am
Well, he did make a play for Greenland. So there's that.
That's just greedy.
To be fair, he wanted to make a trade with Denmark and give them Puerto Rico in exchange for Greenland. In Trump's shrewd mind, he realized Greenland was much bigger.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
I Have Questions
God
Posts: 1212
Joined: Tue May 23, 2023 9:09 am

Re: Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

Post by I Have Questions »

A new book by one of the nation's foremost civil liberties lawyers powerfully describes how America's constitutional checks and balances are being pushed to the brink by a president who is consciously following Adolf Hitler's extremist propaganda and policy template from the early 1930s--when the Nazis took power in Germany.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019 ... etoric-and
In When at Times the Mob Is Swayed: A Citizen's Guide to Defending Our Republic, Burt Neuborne mostly focuses on how America's constitutional foundation in 2019--an unrepresentative Congress, the Electoral College and a right-wing Supreme Court majority--is not positioned to withstand Trump's extreme polarization and GOP power grabs. However, its second chapter, "Why the Sudden Concern About Fixing the Brakes?," extensively details Trump's mimicry of Hitler's pre-war rhetoric and strategies.
Jana Riess is bang on with her comparison, an overwhelming majority of Mormons voted to elect the most Hitler-like leader that America has ever seen.

Trump's immigrant plan is straight out of Hitler’s early playbook. And we know where that led.

If only Mormons had a divinely inspired leader who could guide them in these latter days and so avoid repeating the mistakes of previous generations…I know the FP talks about neutrality and staying out of politics unless there’s a moral reason for getting involved, such as in their opinion same-sex marriage. I guess Trump revisiting the Hitler plans of the 1930’s doesn’t class as a moral issue in their eyes. Or maybe they are trying to sit on the political fence to avoid offending whoever wins, rather than standing up and being counted for what they believe. Just like they did in the 1930’s in Germany.

Nelson and Oaks will not age well under the microscope of history.
Last edited by I Have Questions on Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
1. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable. 2. The best evidence for The Book of Mormon is eye witness testimony, therefore… 3.The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is a type of evidence that is notoriously unreliable.
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 8105
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University
Contact:

Re: Jana Reiss: LDS Supported Hitler And Are Supporting Trump For The Same Reasons

Post by Kishkumen »

Moksha wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2024 11:56 am
To be fair, he wanted to make a trade with Denmark and give them Puerto Rico in exchange for Greenland. In Trump's shrewd mind, he realized Greenland was much bigger.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You really make this board so much more worthwhile.
Post Reply