When you were Christian...

[IWMP]

... Did you ever feel like why do these later converts get to go to heaven when they've spent all their life sinning and I've worked hard much longer?

(I don't see it like this and I've adapted this to be relevant here). The evangelists I have met with recently have this view and I felt alien when they were discussing it because I don't know see it like that at all.

Edit: or even now, if you still are Christian do you think like that?

Yes. I thought it was stupid that God created everything including people who could murder and rape and whatever and then those people got to recant on their death beds or after multiple crimes and go to heaven.

But Mormons teach that murders go to outer darkness. Would their repentance no matter how sincere save them?

[IWMP]

To clarify, I think the scenario is something like this:

1) Born in the church and punished for every sin, constantly trying to atone for all of them after they happen.
2) Deathbed baptism/conversion with no time to sin, because the person died 1 minute after being saved.

These Christians don't teach that though. They believe they are saved regardless of sin and that because they are saved, in their hearts they want to be good. They teach that they aren't saved by their charity and choices but that the sacrifice was enough.

[IWMP]

... Did you ever feel like why do these later converts get to go to heaven when they've spent all their life sinning and I've worked hard much longer?

(I don't see it like this and I've adapted this to be relevant here). The evangelists I have met with recently have this view and I felt alien when they were discussing it because I don't know see it like that at all.

Edit: or even now, if you still are Christian do you think like that?

I don’t, but my beliefs are different from those taught by TCoJCoLDS. I feel thankful instead. Just between us, I’ll be sinning up until my last breath.

[drumdude]

To clarify, I think the scenario is something like this:

1) Born in the church and punished for every sin, constantly trying to atone for all of them after they happen.
2) Deathbed baptism/conversion with no time to sin, because the person died 1 minute after being saved.

These Christians don't teach that though. They believe they are saved regardless of sin and that because they are saved, in their hearts they want to be good. They teach that they aren't saved by their charity and choices but that the sacrifice was enough.

That’s definitely a very charitable view of Christ’s unconditional atonement that I resonate with.

Having been both a Catholic and a Mormon, I’ve had more experience with qualified salvation. You must be baptized, you must confess, etc.

A Mormon might say salvation is universal, but everyone gets varying door prizes depending on their qualifications.

[I Have Questions]

These Christians don't teach that though. They believe they are saved regardless of sin and that because they are saved, in their hearts they want to be good. They teach that they aren't saved by their charity and choices but that the sacrifice was enough.

That’s definitely a very charitable view of Christ’s unconditional atonement that I resonate with.

Having been both a Catholic and a Mormon, I’ve had more experience with qualified salvation. You must be baptized, you must confess, etc.

A Mormon might say salvation is universal, but everyone gets varying door prizes depending on their qualifications.

Mormonism makes a distinction between salvation - available to all without qualification; synonymous with resurrection, and exaltation - which is a segregation into various levels based on earthly performance and acceptance of certain ordinances and which happens after resurrection/salvation.

[drumdude]

That’s definitely a very charitable view of Christ’s unconditional atonement that I resonate with.

Having been both a Catholic and a Mormon, I’ve had more experience with qualified salvation. You must be baptized, you must confess, etc.

A Mormon might say salvation is universal, but everyone gets varying door prizes depending on their qualifications.

Mormonism makes a distinction between salvation - available to all without qualification; synonymous with resurrection, and exaltation - which is a segregation into various levels based on earthly performance and acceptance of certain ordinances and which happens after resurrection/salvation.

And we would all kill ourselves right now if we knew how great the terrestrial level was. Anyone want some koolaid?

[MG 2.0]

Yes. I thought it was stupid that God created everything including people who could murder and rape and whatever and then those people got to recant on their death beds or after multiple crimes and go to heaven.

But Mormons teach that murders go to outer darkness. Would their repentance no matter how sincere save them?

I'm going to use some A.I. to answer this concern/question:

In Mormon theology, the fate of murderers and their ability to repent is nuanced and deeply tied to the doctrines of repentance, restitution, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Here are key points based on LDS teachings:

Murder as a Grave Sin
Murder is considered one of the most serious sins, second only to denying the Holy Ghost (the unpardonable sin). Doctrine and Covenants 42:18 states that "he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come." This suggests that murderers cannot achieve full forgiveness, as they cannot fully make restitution for taking a life.

Pardon vs. Forgiveness
While murder is described as "unforgivable," it is considered "pardonable" in some contexts. This means that a murderer may suffer for their sins but could still inherit a degree of glory in the afterlife, such as the Terrestrial Kingdom (a lesser degree of heaven). For example, King David, despite his repentance, was not forgiven but will be pardoned and saved into the Terrestrial Kingdom.

Repentance and Restitution
Repentance requires confession, godly sorrow, forsaking sin, and making restitution where possible. However, since life cannot be restored, full restitution for murder is deemed impossible. This limits the ability of murderers to complete the repentance process fully.

Exceptions and Hope
Some examples in scripture show that individuals who committed murder (e.g., the converted Lamanites known as the People of Ammon) found forgiveness through profound repentance and covenant-making with God. These cases highlight that God's mercy through the Atonement can extend even to grave sins under certain conditions.

Outer Darkness vs. Other Outcomes
Outer Darkness is reserved for "Sons of Perdition," those who deny Christ after receiving a perfect knowledge of Him. Murderers are not automatically cast into Outer Darkness unless they also meet these criteria. Instead, they may face severe suffering but still avoid complete separation from God.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
MG

[IWMP]

Mormonism makes a distinction between salvation - available to all without qualification; synonymous with resurrection, and exaltation - which is a segregation into various levels based on earthly performance and acceptance of certain ordinances and which happens after resurrection/salvation.

And we would all kill ourselves right now if we knew how great the terrestrial level was. Anyone want some koolaid?

I always thought suicide to be a huge sin. But I get what you are saying

[IWMP]

But Mormons teach that murders go to outer darkness. Would their repentance no matter how sincere save them?

I'm going to use some A.I. to answer this concern/question:

In Mormon theology, the fate of murderers and their ability to repent is nuanced and deeply tied to the doctrines of repentance, restitution, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Here are key points based on LDS teachings:

Murder as a Grave Sin
Murder is considered one of the most serious sins, second only to denying the Holy Ghost (the unpardonable sin). Doctrine and Covenants 42:18 states that "he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come." This suggests that murderers cannot achieve full forgiveness, as they cannot fully make restitution for taking a life.

Pardon vs. Forgiveness
While murder is described as "unforgivable," it is considered "pardonable" in some contexts. This means that a murderer may suffer for their sins but could still inherit a degree of glory in the afterlife, such as the Terrestrial Kingdom (a lesser degree of heaven). For example, King David, despite his repentance, was not forgiven but will be pardoned and saved into the Terrestrial Kingdom.

Repentance and Restitution
Repentance requires confession, godly sorrow, forsaking sin, and making restitution where possible. However, since life cannot be restored, full restitution for murder is deemed impossible. This limits the ability of murderers to complete the repentance process fully.

Exceptions and Hope
Some examples in scripture show that individuals who committed murder (e.g., the converted Lamanites known as the People of Ammon) found forgiveness through profound repentance and covenant-making with God. These cases highlight that God's mercy through the Atonement can extend even to grave sins under certain conditions.

Outer Darkness vs. Other Outcomes
Outer Darkness is reserved for "Sons of Perdition," those who deny Christ after receiving a perfect knowledge of Him. Murderers are not automatically cast into Outer Darkness unless they also meet these criteria. Instead, they may face severe suffering but still avoid complete separation from God.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
MG

That's interesting.

[MG 2.0]

I'm going to use some A.I. to answer this concern/question:



Hope this helps.

Regards,
MG

That's interesting.

Sometimes things are over simplified here. There are usually more moving parts.

Regards,
MG