My experience is that the LDS Church is hyper focused on following the teachings of Jesus Christ and encouraging its members to follow him and walk in his footsteps.
In that case, many more people must be joining the CoJCoLDS than are leaving it. I mean, if it really is the one true church of the son of the deity you worship, it would be so obviously great that no-one who experiences it could ever walk away.
So that's what is happening, right?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
My experience is that the LDS Church is hyper focused on following the teachings of Jesus Christ and encouraging its members to follow him and walk in his footsteps.
In that case, many more people must be joining the CoJCoLDS than are leaving it. I mean, if it really is the one true church of the son of the deity you worship, it would be so obviously great that no-one who experiences it could ever walk away.
So that's what is happening, right?
I don't know that the only measure of whether or not something is true (the LDS Church in this case) is simply the number coming in or the number going out. I do think, however, that those that have experienced a conversion to the Lord through the various ways He makes himself known is highly unlikely to walk away. There may be some (few?)folks that were converted to Christ that walked away or walk away, but I think they may be in the minority.
But I suppose there is no objectively based study that has been done in this regard.
One is not converted to the church, one is converted to Jesus Christ and the reality of God the Father. That doesn't come...normally...in one fell swoop. It takes a lifetime of living the gospel, going through the refiner's fire, and becoming converted as little children.
MG wrote: Why run away from something that gives you a blueprint on living a happy life and preparing for a happy hereafter?
A good reason is that the blueprint in certain respects is an outright lie, and in other respects isn't anything you can't get anywhere else. Nothing the church teaches is going to help you in a non-existent hereafter. There goes most of the message. Mormonism's family values campaigns borrowed from around them, anything from Nazism to Earl Nightingale. Here is some pop psychology and now here are some scriptures to back it up, if you squint hard enough. I'm sure it does work for you. I'm equally sure had you not grown up in Mormonism, there are a thousand other institutions whether churches or clubs that you'd have found fulfillment in. One thing that pervades your posts on this board is optimism; you're an optimistic, happy-go-lucky guy. That wouldn't be any different had you substituted one of innumerable social networks or organizations with access to pop psychology for Mormonism early on.
Social distancing has likely already begun to flatten the curve...Continue to research good antivirals and vaccine candidates. Make everyone wear masks. -- J.D. Vance
MG wrote: Why run away from something that gives you a blueprint on living a happy life and preparing for a happy hereafter?
A good reason is that the blueprint in certain respects is an outright lie, and in other respects isn't anything you can't get anywhere else. Nothing the church teaches is going to help you in a non-existent hereafter. There goes most of the message. Mormonism's family values campaigns borrowed from around them, anything from Nazism to Earl Nightingale. Here is some pop psychology and now here are some scriptures to back it up, if you squint hard enough. I'm sure it does work for you. I'm equally sure had you not grown up in Mormonism, there are a thousand other institutions whether churches or clubs that you'd have found fulfillment in. One thing that pervades your posts on this board is optimism; you're an optimistic, happy-go-lucky guy. That wouldn't be any different had you substituted one of innumerable social networks or organizations with access to pop psychology for Mormonism early on.
MG wrote: Why run away from something that gives you a blueprint on living a happy life and preparing for a happy hereafter?
A good reason is that the blueprint in certain respects is an outright lie, and in other respects isn't anything you can't get anywhere else. Nothing the church teaches is going to help you in a non-existent hereafter. There goes most of the message. Mormonism's family values campaigns borrowed from around them, anything from Nazism to Earl Nightingale. Here is some pop psychology and now here are some scriptures to back it up, if you squint hard enough. I'm sure it does work for you. I'm equally sure had you not grown up in Mormonism, there are a thousand other institutions whether churches or clubs that you'd have found fulfillment in. One thing that pervades your posts on this board is optimism; you're an optimistic, happy-go-lucky guy. That wouldn't be any different had you substituted one of innumerable social networks or organizations with access to pop psychology for Mormonism early on.
You have absolutely nothing to offer other than annihilation. That doesn't do it for me.
Joseph brought all things together in heaven and in earth under the direction of Jesus Christ and the Father.
You have absolutely nothing to offer other than annihilation. That doesn't do it for me.
Humans are pretty limited in what afterlife options they can offer to other humans. If they’re being honest.
The ones who want you to believe they can give you options are always strangely also asking for money. And in Joseph Smith’s case, asking for your wife too.
I think some skepticism is warranted and justified.
It's either all true or it's all false. I've chosen true. To me, it makes sense. At the end of the day it is rather binary.
That’s quite the statement. And a little bit contradictory. Whether some tangible item is true or false is not a choice. For example you cannot choose for 2+2 to = 5.
So when you say you’ve chosen for “it” be “all” true, what do you mean (specifically) by “it”? And what do you mean, specifically by “all”?
Also, when a Prophet reverses something that you had previously chosen to be true, does that mean you have changed your choice and that the newly reversed position is the thing that is now true?
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
A good reason is that the blueprint in certain respects is an outright lie, and in other respects isn't anything you can't get anywhere else. Nothing the church teaches is going to help you in a nonexistent hereafter.
As long as the Church teaches MG to follow the Golden Rule, he should be a better person for it.
MG, I think you have a relatively uncommon view of Mormonism. It's actually a nice view. I love that you are Jesus focussed and your faith has that at the centre. I don't think Mormons in general are as Jesus focussed as you sound to be. I think people who have strong faith in Christ are able to access Christ in places elsewhere and so might not have trouble leaving the church if they know they can try other churches or build a relationship with God away from the church. I guess it depends really on whether your faith is in Christ or if your faith is in the church being "true".
You have absolutely nothing to offer other than annihilation. That doesn't do it for me.
Humans are pretty limited in what afterlife options they can offer to other humans. If they’re being honest.
The ones who want you to believe they can give you options are always strangely also asking for money. And in Joseph Smith’s case, asking for your wife too.
I think some skepticism is warranted and justified.
I agree. Been there, done that. At heart I am a skeptic and questioner. And yes, there have been and continue to be many ideas as to what constitutes the afterlife, if any.
LDS doctrines, in the main, have the ring of truth to me more so than other afterlife options...including reincarnation. Progression and becoming more like the Creator and being able to act as co-creators in some small way to continue the larger plan of expansion of eternal relationships and growth, rather than annialation/extinction, appeals to my sense/hope of meaning and purpose beyond the here and now.
As it stands, I have not seen another system of belief that is more appealing than the doctrines of Christ as taught/revealed in the CofJCofLDS.
If you have something better to offer, have at it!
