DiscussMormonism.com

https://youtu.be/9zaZrp_38xc?si=WZ5wl_jn_sIkRqMt

I stumbled on the YouTube channel “Life, take two.” I clicked on this episode about leaving MAGA because I am interested to see what makes people wake up from that nightmare. What I got instead was a story about leaving Mormonism as a step leading up to leaving MAGA.

The speaker was a fifth-generation Mormon, married to a well off seventh generation Mormon, living in the tonier suburbs in Arizona. By her account, a world of wealthy white people. One day a relief society teacher taught a lesson against homosexuality in which the teacher used a bi-sexual relative as a negative example. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back and started this woman’s journey out of Mormonism, out of her marriage, and out of MAGA. I found it interesting to see her recount how she transformed into an atheist Democrat with friends of many races from being a white Mormon in an unhappy marriage, who was all in on Trump.

I am also reminded that Mormonism is not the same experience for all people. I have known Mormon Democrats. I have known Mormons who never approved of MAGA. There are plenty of Mormons around the globe who are not Republican, MAGA, or racist. Their experience is quite different from this particular woman’s, and yet I am happy for this woman finding her freedom and growing.

This thread promises to be enjoyable, and I'm eager to add my thoughts!

Many individuals who leave Mormonism and subsequently join another group, like progressivism, often do so out of a fear of independent thought. In another discussion, MG2.0 suggested that Mormonism permits freedom of thought, but that assertion is inaccurate. Mormonism permits freedom of thought only within the boundaries established for its members regarding acceptable thinking.

The boundaries for freedom of thought are quite limited in both Mormonism and progressivism. MAGA and conservatism Both Republican and Democrat conservatism provide a freedom of thought that can be unsettling for individuals leaving Mormonism, as there are no directives on what they should do. They no longer adhere to the brethren, and once their sphere of influence has diminished, they gravitate towards MAGA. However, they discover that MAGA emphasizes true freedom of choice, which requires individuals to think independently. They leave MAGA and embrace progressivism, as both share a lifestyle that limits freedom of thought.

It's that simple.

You should have named this thread Leaving Professor Snape to embrace Donald Trump!

Hound of Heaven wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 30, 2025 12:34 pm

This thread promises to be enjoyable, and I'm eager to add my thoughts!

Many individuals who leave Mormonism and subsequently join another group, like progressivism, often do so out of a fear of independent thought. In another discussion, MG2.0 suggested that Mormonism permits freedom of thought, but that assertion is inaccurate. Mormonism permits freedom of thought only within the boundaries established for its members regarding acceptable thinking.

The boundaries for freedom of thought are quite limited in both Mormonism and progressivism. MAGA and conservatism Both Republican and Democrat conservatism provide a freedom of thought that can be unsettling for individuals leaving Mormonism, as there are no directives on what they should do. They no longer adhere to the brethren, and once their sphere of influence has diminished, they gravitate towards MAGA. However, they discover that MAGA emphasizes true freedom of choice, which requires individuals to think independently. They leave MAGA and embrace progressivism, as both share a lifestyle that limits freedom of thought.

It's that simple.

You should have named this thread Leaving Professor Snape to embrace Donald Trump!

LOL!!! Sure, Hound. MAGA is not freedom of thought. It is freedom to be duped by one of the most transparently fraudulent politicians of the modern age. Not seeing much freedom of thought there. I will agree, however, that freedom of thought is both frightening and, I would add, aspirational. You are living proof that people generally see themselves as free thinkers in comparison with others in groups they do not like. I am no exception either. It is also the case that freedom to be stupid is a byproduct of freedom of thought. Your freedom from Mormonism and Progressivism is enjoyed in stupidity. So, yeah, you are free to be as stupid as you are being, while imagining yourself to be clever.

I believe the point at which our perspectives on freedom diverge is that you find freedom in excluding those who do not share your views, which seems to be a principle of progressivism.

During my time as a Mormon, I experienced a sense of freedom akin to that of a bird, though this freedom was contingent upon my adherence to the commandments and the policies established by the brethren of the church. One might consider it this way: as a Mormon, I accepted the parameters of Mormonism, recognizing that adhering to its policies essentially built walls around my freedom even though I didn't understand at the time, permitting me to experience freedom only within the confines of those walls I constructed for myself.

Progressivism operates in a similar manner. Once an individual embraces progressive ideology, they metaphorically construct barriers around their newly adopted belief system, which enables them to feel as liberated as a bird, provided they operate within those confines.

Please explain how MAGA ensnares its followers. I watched the video, and it's clear she faced significant challenges in finding her identity as she navigated her departure from Mormonism. I empathize with her, as departing from Mormonism can be incredibly challenging and quite perplexing.

Kish,

Interesting video. The real genius of the MAGA movement is found in its simplicity: instead of a platform, you get a cult of personality; instead of accurate information, you get fake news; instead of actual policies, you get a silly story about how the downtrodden whites are finally taking back their rightful throne from the coastal elites, globalists, immigrants and anyone else who is different. In the MAGA movement everyone can intellectually check out and be in a state of constant blissful fury where everyone else is the enemy and your only job is to cheer and donate.

Hound of Heaven wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 30, 2025 12:34 pm

This thread promises to be enjoyable, and I'm eager to add my thoughts!

Many individuals who leave Mormonism and subsequently join another group, like progressivism, often do so out of a fear of independent thought. In another discussion, MG2.0 suggested that Mormonism permits freedom of thought, but that assertion is inaccurate. Mormonism permits freedom of thought only within the boundaries established for its members regarding acceptable thinking.

The boundaries for freedom of thought are quite limited in both Mormonism and progressivism. MAGA and conservatism Both Republican and Democrat conservatism provide a freedom of thought that can be unsettling for individuals leaving Mormonism, as there are no directives on what they should do. They no longer adhere to the brethren, and once their sphere of influence has diminished, they gravitate towards MAGA. However, they discover that MAGA emphasizes true freedom of choice, which requires individuals to think independently. They leave MAGA and embrace progressivism, as both share a lifestyle that limits freedom of thought.

It's that simple.

You should have named this thread Leaving Professor Snape to embrace Donald Trump!

Just a side note. This woman complains about Mormonism being a “high demand religion”. I keep hearing that from critics. One might ask whether this complaint among those that leave the church might be playing an integral part in their exit from the church. Joseph Smith said:

A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation.

Was he on to something? We seem to be seeing more and more people unwilling or unable to make the sacrifice necessary to be a disciple of Christ as a member of the church. There are certain moral standards and sexual purity standards that are part and parcel of being a baptized member of the church keeping covenants. Are there some that aren’t willing to make that sacrifice? This seems to be a thing with this woman.

I do agree with you Hound, the progressive movement does have its own mantra in restrictions on thought and behavior. That’s why I’m more comfortable as an Independent and being an independently minded person. And yes, that is possible within the LDS Church. Having certain moral and ethical beliefs and practices that one believes brings them closer in alignment with living God’s law is not checking one’s brain in at the door of the chapel.

And no, I do not own a red MAGA hat. I do agree with some of the things the Trump administration is doing and am somewhat concerned about other things I see going on. But I don’t feel constrained to go full on progressive as some are wont to do. I don’t want to be ‘locked in’ to a certain political thought police system.

Regards,
MG

The LDS church itself is relaxing their own standards with regards to modesty and temple clothing.

Are you willing to throw that criticism at church leaders as well, MG?

drumdude wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 30, 2025 5:44 pm

The LDS church itself is relaxing their own standards with regards to modesty and temple clothing.

Are you willing to throw that criticism at church leaders as well, MG?

It’s another interesting example of the Leaders of the Church making concessions to member activism. More and more women were eschewing their garments, at least for long parts of the week. The Church tried coercing the members to wear them full time, explaining their sacredness etc. but to no avail. So when the members refused to meet garment-wearing standards, the Church lowered those standards to meet what members were prepared to do. Member activism works.

MG 2.0 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 30, 2025 5:13 pm

Hound of Heaven wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 30, 2025 12:34 pm

This thread promises to be enjoyable, and I'm eager to add my thoughts!

Many individuals who leave Mormonism and subsequently join another group, like progressivism, often do so out of a fear of independent thought. In another discussion, MG2.0 suggested that Mormonism permits freedom of thought, but that assertion is inaccurate. Mormonism permits freedom of thought only within the boundaries established for its members regarding acceptable thinking.

The boundaries for freedom of thought are quite limited in both Mormonism and progressivism. MAGA and conservatism Both Republican and Democrat conservatism provide a freedom of thought that can be unsettling for individuals leaving Mormonism, as there are no directives on what they should do. They no longer adhere to the brethren, and once their sphere of influence has diminished, they gravitate towards MAGA. However, they discover that MAGA emphasizes true freedom of choice, which requires individuals to think independently. They leave MAGA and embrace progressivism, as both share a lifestyle that limits freedom of thought.

It's that simple.

You should have named this thread Leaving Professor Snape to embrace Donald Trump!

Just a side note. This woman complains about Mormonism being a “high demand religion”. I keep hearing that from critics. One might ask whether this complaint among those that leave the church might be playing an integral part in their exit from the church. Joseph Smith said:

A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation.

Was he on to something? We seem to be seeing more and more people unwilling or unable to make the sacrifice necessary to be a disciple of Christ as a member of the church. There are certain moral standards and sexual purity standards that are part and parcel of being a baptized member of the church keeping covenants. Are there some that aren’t willing to make that sacrifice? This seems to be a thing with this woman.

I do agree with you Hound, the progressive movement does have its own mantra in restrictions on thought and behavior. That’s why I’m more comfortable as an Independent and being an independently minded person. And yes, that is possible within the LDS Church. Having certain moral and ethical beliefs and practices that one believes brings them closer in alignment with living God’s law is not checking one’s brain in at the door of the chapel.

And no, I do not own a red MAGA hat. I do agree with some of the things the Trump administration is doing and am somewhat concerned about other things I see going on. But I don’t feel constrained to go full on progressive as some are wont to do. I don’t want to be ‘locked in’ to a certain political thought police system.

Regards,
MG

Would true disciples of Christ or Christ himself approve of a multi billion dollar hoard? Without purse or script was a fundamental aspect of early Christianity and Mormonism. What about sacrificing for a senior mission or two? There are apparently many who aren't willing to do that.

Kishkumen wrote:I am also reminded that Mormonism is not the same experience for all people. I have known Mormon Democrats. I have known Mormons who never approved of MAGA. There are plenty of Mormons around the globe who are not Republican, MAGA, or racist.

I'm sure there are many aspects of a person's life tangled up enough that a big change in one forces a change in others and it might be a matter of luck which thread gets pulled first.

I can't remember where I saw this, but somebody did a study that showed people are increasingly self-reporting as Evangelical, even if they aren't Christian. As an extreme example of something like this, look at QAnon. There were gatherings in "brown" countries all over the world; people joining by the thousands to light candles in honor of Q. A total nonsense thing that arose from within the gutter of the Internet and within the context of the great replacement theory and all kinds of racist stuff. Simple people that constitute the masses need something to believe in and have no clue what they're really getting involved with.

And so it looks like this rush of claims to evangelism intend to say that they "believe passionately" in, well, something. Something that everyone else in the crowd appears to also believe -- it's like an Amway convention. An so in my mind, there is a swath of MAGA, a large swath, that have no beliefs in particular, they are the same kind of people if not the same people who got wrapped up in Q without knowing anything about 4chan. How long they will last will be interesting to see.

There are a number of MAGA within my LDS family and also a long-time LDS friend who have completely drank the Kool-Aid, and whose connection is deeper, via the channel of life-long Utah conservativism. However, they are nothing like the representatives we've had on this board or the social media stereotypes. None of them are hateful and cruel. I have not spoken to any of them in a year, and some I'm not close to enough to have ever broached politics. One of them is the most accepting person you can imagine. He's got trans people in his family and he tells me things like, "all we can do Gad is love them and try to understand them." I've never heard any of these people criticize another human being or even bash a Democrat politician. They aren't like my right-wing friend, who has achieved the stereotype, much like a few I can name from this board. Some of them believe deeply in deep state conspiracies and certainly vaccine conspiracies. But it's this weird, almost abstract thing, and not tied to any personal animosity toward LGBQ or immigrants or any of the standard targets.

How do they justify what's going on? No idea. I will try to figure that out next time I have a conversation but something tells me I won't find any answers.