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My new video, “A Response to Recent Book of Abraham Apologetics,” premieres at 3:00 pm Mountain Time on Thursday, 18 Sept. 2025.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya8mZ0BJ-2w

dan vogel wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 18, 2025 7:12 pm

My new video, “A Response to Recent Book of Abraham Apologetics,” premieres at 3:00 pm Mountain Time on Thursday, 18 Sept. 2025.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya8mZ0BJ-2w

Thanks for posting this here, Dan!

This is a great video, Dan. Thanks for posting it. It exposes a lot of the absurdities (even modulo Schryver) in the apologetics.

And it strikes me how much time and effort and scholarship is put into this totally absurd story of an 19th century bumpkin looking at some scrolls and saying "Oh hey that's Abraham's signature!", and that there are people still today whose whole identities hinge (at least partly) on making that sound not totally bananas.

MetaProf wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 18, 2025 11:39 pm

This is a great video, Dan. Thanks for posting it. It exposes a lot of the absurdities (even modulo Schryver) in the apologetics.

And it strikes me how much time and effort and scholarship is put into this totally absurd story of an 19th century bumpkin looking at some scrolls and saying "Oh hey that's Abraham's signature!", and that there are people still today whose whole identities hinge (at least partly) on making that sound not totally bananas.

Thanks for watching and commenting. I appreciate it.

MetaProf wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 18, 2025 11:39 pm

This is a great video, Dan. Thanks for posting it. It exposes a lot of the absurdities (even modulo Schryver) in the apologetics.

And it strikes me how much time and effort and scholarship is put into this totally absurd story of an 19th century bumpkin looking at some scrolls and saying "Oh hey that's Abraham's signature!", and that there are people still today whose whole identities hinge (at least partly) on making that sound not totally bananas.

And then DCP posts about the value of applying Occam’s razor and mocks MAGA conspiracy theories. Ones which are orders of magnitude more plausible than Joseph Smith’s story. It’s enough to make a cat laugh.

The book of Abraham is the smoking gun of Mormonism and apologists will never be able to fully deal with that.

drumdude wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 20, 2025 5:01 am

The book of Abraham is the smoking gun of Mormonism and apologists will never be able to fully deal with that.

***HOLD THE PRESS***

The apologists don't deal at all with how the Book of Abraham claims a woman (Daughter of Ham) discovered Egypt after the flood in about 2300 BC whereby Egypt was named after her, a Greek name of all things!

The apologists have said nothing about how Mormonism's Egypt is out of date with conventional Egyptology and scientific calculations.

THAT is the smoking gun. The Book of Abraham is false history and there isn't a damn thing apologist liars can do about it, including Gee & Muhlestein.

Hey, Gee -- you're a liar and a cheat. U too, Muhlestein!

I don’t think there’s an apologist, alive or dead, that can adequately refute Dan Vogel’s superbly researched analysis of The Book of Abraham. It’s utterly devastating. The Book of Abraham is not just the smoking gun, it’s the smoking gun, CCTV, signed confession, AND DNA crime scene evidence rolled into one.

Church leaders cannot be in any doubt that the Book of Abraham is not a “translation of the papyri” in any way shape or form of the way that word is understood.

I Have Questions wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 20, 2025 9:47 pm

I don’t think there’s an apologist, alive or dead, that can adequately refute Dan Vogel’s superbly researched analysis of The Book of Abraham. It’s utterly devastating. The Book of Abraham is not just the smoking gun, it’s the smoking gun, CCTV, signed confession, AND DNA crime scene evidence rolled into one.

Church leaders cannot be in any doubt that the Book of Abraham is not a “translation of the papyri” in any way shape or form of the way that word is understood.

Dan did a good job with the podcast and made many good points. I thought to elaborate on them but people around here probably have had enough of me.

I do hope that Dan picks up the 2300 BC ball and run it in for a touchdown. The apologists are scared to death of having to answer for that and Mormon Egyptologists dare not open that can of worms. The Mormons have been hiding behind the Bible and have been spared brutal criticism for Book of Abraham claims of Egypt being founded in 2300 BC. The Mormons have been getting away with murder for over a hundred years on this issue!

But that has come to an end. I've showcased this as the fatal blow to the Book of Abraham and sincerely wish that other critics would pick the ball up and run with it. Will you do that, Dan? What's holding you back? It's the goose that lays the golden egg. Trust me. The apologists can't defend it.

Shulem wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 20, 2025 10:33 pm

I do hope that Dan picks up the 2300 BC ball and run it in for a touchdown. The apologists are scared to death of having to answer for that, and Mormon Egyptologists dare not open that can of worms. The Mormons have been hiding behind the Bible and have been spared brutal criticism for the Book of Abraham claims of Egypt being founded in 2300 BC.

Do Mormons really have to answer this? Couldn't they simply exclaim, "History be damned, we've got our own mythology!"

This could become a popular T-shirt meme at BYU as well as a selling point for LDS missionary conversions.

Moksha wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 21, 2025 1:17 am

Shulem wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 20, 2025 10:33 pm

I do hope that Dan picks up the 2300 BC ball and run it in for a touchdown. The apologists are scared to death of having to answer for that, and Mormon Egyptologists dare not open that can of worms. The Mormons have been hiding behind the Bible and have been spared brutal criticism for the Book of Abraham claims of Egypt being founded in 2300 BC.

Do Mormons really have to answer this? Couldn't they simply exclaim, "History be damned, we've got our own mythology!"

This could become a popular T-shirt meme at BYU as well as a selling point for LDS missionary conversions.

The church claims that unbelievers can't prove Mormon faith is misplaced. But we know Egypt was not founded by a woman in 2300 BC! We know it! That is far more powerful than mere faith! It's knowledge in things that we know are true.