The Long and Winding Road (To Ruin) or Eight Days a Week (Of Woe): Mormon Apostle Blames the Beatles for Society's Ills

[Shulem]

For one thing, the prophets in the Book of Mormon did not have direct access to the doctrines that were apparently given to the five early Church Fathers I've mentioned...

Calling the Holy Ghost, come in, HOLY GHOST! Please tell us Nephite prophets what you told early Christian fathers on the other side of the planet!

Help.

[Limnor]

For one thing, the prophets in the Book of Mormon did not have direct access to the doctrines that were apparently given to the five early Church Fathers I've mentioned...

Calling the Holy Ghost, come in, HOLY GHOST! Please tell us Nephite prophets what you told early Christian fathers on the other side of the planet!

Help.

Yeah, what’s up with that? If the Holy Ghost could teach post-apostolic, non-prophets Origen, Irenaeus, Clement, Augustine, and Tertullian (in different languages, regions, and centuries, as pointed out earlier), why wouldn’t he teach Nephi and Mormon?

Oh I get it: God’s chosen record-keepers who were establishing the fulness of the gospel missed those doctrines so that Joseph could later introduce the CFs vibes that wouldn’t be correlated until even later.

Dizzying.

[Shulem]

Okay—but if the Book of Mormon is “the fullness of the gospel,” and its authors are portrayed as receiving direct revelations from Christ Himself, then why is the fullness missing the core doctrine of the plan?

It's not so much that a core doctrine is missing but that core doctrine taught therein teaches against it! The Book of Mormon teaches heaven or hell -- eternal reward vs. eternal punishment. Later, there was a shift in Mormonism and the Three Degrees is one of them!

[Shulem]

Oh I get it: God’s chosen record-keepers who were establishing the fulness of the gospel missed those doctrines so that Joseph could later introduce the CFs vibes that wouldn’t be correlated until even later.

Dizzying.

Moroni didn't have time to mention the Three Degrees of glory or how earlier Book of Mormon prophets failed to show differences of salvation and glory when in fact they taught the opposite. Moroni had plenty of time to mention it but instead he focused on other things:

• Elders ordain priests and teachers by the laying on of hands.
• How elders and priests administer the sacramental bread is explained.
• The mode of administering the sacramental wine is set forth.
• Repentant persons are baptized and fellowshipped—Church members who repent are forgiven—Meetings are conducted by the power of the Holy Ghost.
• An invitation is given to enter into the rest of the Lord—Pray with real intent—The Spirit of Christ enables men to know good from evil—Satan persuades men to deny Christ and do evil—The prophets manifest the coming of Christ—By faith, miracles are wrought and angels minister—Men should hope for eternal life and cleave unto charity.
• The baptism of little children is an evil abomination—Little children are alive in Christ because of the Atonement—Faith, repentance, meekness and lowliness of heart, receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end lead to salvation.
• Both the Nephites and the Lamanites are depraved and degenerate—They torture and murder each other—Mormon prays that grace and goodness may rest upon Moroni forever.
• A testimony of the Book of Mormon comes by the power of the Holy Ghost—The gifts of the Spirit are dispensed to the faithful—Spiritual gifts always accompany faith—Moroni’s words speak from the dust—Come unto Christ, be perfected in Him, and sanctify your souls.

[MG 2.0]

Okay—but if the Book of Mormon is “the fullness of the gospel,” and its authors are portrayed as receiving direct revelations from Christ Himself, then why is the fullness missing the core doctrine of the plan?

It's not so much that a core doctrine is missing but that core doctrine taught therein teaches against it! The Book of Mormon teaches heaven or hell -- eternal reward vs. eternal punishment. Later, there was a shift in Mormonism and the Three Degrees is one of them!

Inspiration by the Holy Ghost does not entail identical doctrinal content across all inspired prophets. Nephi’s and Mormon’s primary prophetic calling was to preach repentance, Christ and the Abrahamic Covenant, and to preserve a record for a future Gentile audience, not to lay out a complete systematic theology.

Early Christian Fathers might receive certain speculative or partially correct insights through the Spirit while still operating in a post apostolic, authority fragmented environment. Remember, I said the Christian Church was spread out over five regions separated from each other. Nephite prophets might receive other truths more suited to their covenant context, with some doctrines reserved for the last dispensation.

In other words, I think it is a bit unreasonable to expect that exact same thing to happen or to be taught from one place in space and time to another. What's interesting is the fact the the early church fathers did teach concerning multiple heavens/degrees. In some cases, seven to be exact.

Joseph Smith was on a similar wavelength.

Cool stuff.

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

not to lay out a complete systematic theology.
…

Nephite prophets might receive other truths more suited to their covenant context, with some doctrines reserved for the last dispensation.

If the fulness of the gospel excludes the Celestial/Terrestrial/Telestial plan, then that plan isn’t the fulness.

Maybe they should have called it “the partialness of the gospel.”

[Shulem]

Inspiration by the Holy Ghost does not entail identical doctrinal content across all inspired prophets.

According to Joseph Smith's teachings, those who held the Melchizedek priesthood taught the core doctrines of heaven beginning with Adam, Enoch, and so forth -- especially during Christ's coming and the post Christian church. All was revealed. The spirit of Elias and Elijah was manifest fully in the prophets.

Nephi’s and Mormon’s primary prophetic calling was to preach repentance, Christ and the Abrahamic Covenant, and to preserve a record for a future Gentile audience, not to lay out a complete systematic theology.

And you base that on what? Chapter and verse, please.

Early Christian Fathers might receive certain speculative or partially correct insights through the Spirit while still operating in a post apostolic, authority fragmented environment. Remember, I said the Christian Church was spread out over five regions separated from each other. Nephite prophets might receive other truths more suited to their covenant context, with some doctrines reserved for the last dispensation.

In other words, I think it is a bit unreasonable to expect that exact same thing to happen or to be taught from one place in space and time to another. What's interesting is the fact the the early church fathers did teach concerning multiple heavens/degrees. In some cases, seven to be exact.

Joseph Smith was on a similar wavelength.

Cool stuff.

The early church fathers would have pitched the Book of Mormon in the trash just as Christians today do.

The Book of Mormon condemns Joseph Smith's later doctrinal revisions and changes. There is no consistency, just changes and modifications to suit his needs. The doctrine of heaven and hell or reward vs. punishment as taught in the Book of Mormon is counter to what Smith later taught.

[Shulem]

What's interesting is the fact the the early church fathers did teach concerning multiple heavens/degrees. In some cases, seven to be exact.

What's even more interesting or telling is that Book of Mormon prophets did no such thing. Not even the brother of Jared who was shown "ALL THINGS" passed on information of the so-called Three Degrees or seven heavens, if you will. The Book of Mormon does not mention it because Smith hadn't thought of it, yet.

Wake up, MG!

[Shulem]

Nephite prophets might receive other truths more suited to their covenant context, with some doctrines reserved for the last dispensation.

Not buying it. Christ would have preached it while making his visitation to the Nephites and his disciples would have taught that doctrine to the people had they known. It's a core doctrine and an idea fundamental to what Joseph Smith later thought concerning salvation and a reward system therein.

[Tom]

This dislike is further documented in Michael Quinn's Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, where it is noted that on April 24, 1981, Apostle David B. Haight gave the keynote address at the Annual Meeting of the Utah Association of Women. Elder Haight stated, "Many of today's problems can be traced to the music of the Beatles in the early 1960s. I witnessed the early developing of protests on college campuses, protests against the Vietnam War, with protestors using Beatle-type music to express their feelings against our government, against our military, and against authority in general.

Quinn’s source seems to be the May-June 1981 issue of Sunstone, which featured a news update titled “Beatles Caused Troubles” (p. 8). Two quick notes regarding the update:

First, I assume that a closing quotation mark should follow “past,” but I am not certain.

Second, the update does not indicate that the sentence that begins “Many of today’s problems” is a direct quotation.

The update read as follows:

Many of today’s problems can be traced to the music of the Beatles in the early 1960s, according to David B. Haight of the Council of the Twelve Apostles, who delivered the keynote address at the Fourth Annual Meeting of the Utah Association of Women held in Salt Lake City April 24 and 25.

That music, which portrayed sex, drugs, and rebellion in a favorable light, caused a decline in moral values, an increase in self-centered thinking, and a proliferation of troubles for the United States, he said. "I witnessed the early developing of protests on college campuses, protests against the Vietnam War, with protestors using Beatle-type music to express their feelings against our government, against our military, and against authority in general. This spread into college classrooms and opened an era of criticism of almost anything that was part of the past.

Urging Utah women to take a lead in raising pure and wholesome young people, Haight told them: "You have such a profound influence in ethics, civility, the culture of our people, and the refinement that has been slowly slipping from us." He praised the Association and expressed optimism for the future because there seems to be a new national pride and faith in eternal principles.

Speaking of evil music, another update in the same issue of Sunstone reported that radio station KVIK at Ricks College purged more than half of its record collection after the station manager and assistant station manager decided that many of the songs on the station’s playlist were inappropriate for a station owned by the LDS Church. Several lucky students reviewed the station’s entire record collection. Said the assistant station manager: “It took us more than 50 hours to check each record for references to sex, drugs, profanity, and anything that could possibly influence even one of our students to break the moral code in any way.” Following this review, station officials tossed or destroyed 451 of the station’s 870 records. I am not making this up. The update did not indicate if any Beatles records were destroyed during the purge, but I hope that at least some were pulverized. “Taxman,” for example, inspires listeners to protest against the government for excessive taxation.