After two decades, the church goes after Mormon Stories

[MG 2.0]

The visibility and audience size give Mormon Stories significant cultural influence, so the power imbalance is not as simple as a lone, powerless individual against a faceless corporation. Remember, the church is a voluntary religious association that members can freely support or leave. Many here have done just that. The fact that Dehlin is profiting monetarily and at the same time leading people out of the church seems like good reason for the church to challenge him within the legal spectrum/arena of influence.

I don't think anyone here would argue that the LDS Church wouldn't like to see Mormon Stories disappear.

Regards,
MG

He makes far less than most of the LDS leaders. Lets not pretend the LDS leaders take a vow of poverty. They're shuttled around in fancy cars and jets, much like Jesus and his real apostles wouldn't be.

Why is the lifestyle gap between Jesus and His early apostles automatically discrediting? You seem to be saying that the correct standard for any modern religious leader is to mirror the exact socioeconomic conditions that were present during ancient times. Even if the apostles at the time of Jesus were materially poor does it follow that any religious leader who is not equally poor is illegitimate or hypocritical?

Have you considered that the compensation and/or institutional 'perks' might be justified because of organizational size, responsibilities, and security concerns? If there is a 'moral problem' wouldn't it lie in the fact of whether or not there was exploitation and/or neglect of the poor that were at the core of the modern day church?

Oh yeah, the critics kinda' see it that way don't they?

So if Dehlin makes less ($236,000 in 2019) than the compensation that General Authority (estimated $170,000-180,000 in today's dollars) receives...oh wait, it looks like he us making significantly more...does that make his profiting morally acceptable? Apparently he makes more than the compensation rate of a General Authority and while doing so, leading more than a few out of the church. Using "Mormon" as his brand.

I can see why after all this time the church might be getting a bit pissed off.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

He makes far less than most of the LDS leaders. Lets not pretend the LDS leaders take a vow of poverty. They're shuttled around in fancy cars and jets, much like Jesus and his real apostles wouldn't be.

Why is the lifestyle gap between Jesus and His early apostles automatically discrediting? You seem to be saying that the correct standard for any modern religious leader is to mirror the exact socioeconomic conditions that were present during ancient times. Even if the apostles at the time of Jesus were materially poor does it follow that any religious leader who is not equally poor is illegitimate or hypocritical?

Yes. It does follow.

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

[I Have Questions]

I can see why after all this time the church might be getting a bit pissed off.

Regards,
MG

Please stop swearing.

[Shulem]

Why is the lifestyle gap between Jesus and His early apostles automatically discrediting?

In my view, raw Christianity expressed in humble New Testament texts does not reflect what we see in modern Mormonism. Materialism and attachment to physical things in Mormonism is nothing short of religious business that is like a state run religion in its own right, much like Islam in countries that control the masses through fear, intimidation, and punishment. The Church is run like a business because it *is* a business! Mormons care very much about how they look and dressing up on Sunday to appear all neat and comely for Heavenly Father is a ritual that does not reflect what I read in the New Testament. The chase for money and worldly wealth are the desires of Mormon leadership in making the Church rich. The Church desires a world empire that tells everyone what to do, what not to do, what to think, and what not to think. Just as soon as Mormon Jesus comes back, new orders will be given out. But until such time, members of the cult must obey the First Presidency like North Koreans must obey their dear leader. Do not question them. Do not vote against them. Do not speak up! Remain in the pews and keep silent. Speak in hallowed language when you pray, pay, and obey.

You, MG, are in a bloody cult and you've sold yourself to a system of religion that gladly consumes you and spits you out when you no longer conform to the program.

I truly feel sorry for you. Wake up!

[Whiskey]

The Church is run like a business because it *is* a business!

The extension of this is the state and local government. Shulem is correct.

[drumdude]

He makes far less than most of the LDS leaders. Lets not pretend the LDS leaders take a vow of poverty. They're shuttled around in fancy cars and jets, much like Jesus and his real apostles wouldn't be.

Why is the lifestyle gap between Jesus and His early apostles automatically discrediting? You seem to be saying that the correct standard for any modern religious leader is to mirror the exact socioeconomic conditions that were present during ancient times. Even if the apostles at the time of Jesus were materially poor does it follow that any religious leader who is not equally poor is illegitimate or hypocritical?

Have you considered that the compensation and/or institutional 'perks' might be justified because of organizational size, responsibilities, and security concerns? If there is a 'moral problem' wouldn't it lie in the fact of whether or not there was exploitation and/or neglect of the poor that were at the core of the modern day church?

Oh yeah, the critics kinda' see it that way don't they?

So if Dehlin makes less ($236,000 in 2019) than the compensation that General Authority (estimated $170,000-180,000 in today's dollars) receives...oh wait, it looks like he us making significantly more...does that make his profiting morally acceptable? Apparently he makes more than the compensation rate of a General Authority and while doing so, leading more than a few out of the church. Using "Mormon" as his brand.

I can see why after all this time the church might be getting a bit pissed off.

Regards,
MG

You should read Quinn’s book about Mormon wealth and power. There is much more to all of this than salaries.

But I suspect you know that already.

[malkie]

Why is the lifestyle gap between Jesus and His early apostles automatically discrediting? You seem to be saying that the correct standard for any modern religious leader is to mirror the exact socioeconomic conditions that were present during ancient times. Even if the apostles at the time of Jesus were materially poor does it follow that any religious leader who is not equally poor is illegitimate or hypocritical?

Have you considered that the compensation and/or institutional 'perks' might be justified because of organizational size, responsibilities, and security concerns? If there is a 'moral problem' wouldn't it lie in the fact of whether or not there was exploitation and/or neglect of the poor that were at the core of the modern day church?

Oh yeah, the critics kinda' see it that way don't they?

So if Dehlin makes less ($236,000 in 2019) than the compensation that General Authority (estimated $170,000-180,000 in today's dollars) receives...oh wait, it looks like he us making significantly more...does that make his profiting morally acceptable? Apparently he makes more than the compensation rate of a General Authority and while doing so, leading more than a few out of the church. Using "Mormon" as his brand.

I can see why after all this time the church might be getting a bit pissed off.

Regards,
MG

You should read Quinn’s book about Mormon wealth and power. There is much more to all of this than salaries.

But I suspect you know that already.

And If I recall correctly, it's not just General Authorities who are "compensated" for their "work.

[Res Ipsa]

He makes far less than most of the LDS leaders. Lets not pretend the LDS leaders take a vow of poverty. They're shuttled around in fancy cars and jets, much like Jesus and his real apostles wouldn't be.

Why is the lifestyle gap between Jesus and His early apostles automatically discrediting? You seem to be saying that the correct standard for any modern religious leader is to mirror the exact socioeconomic conditions that were present during ancient times. Even if the apostles at the time of Jesus were materially poor does it follow that any religious leader who is not equally poor is illegitimate or hypocritical?

Have you considered that the compensation and/or institutional 'perks' might be justified because of organizational size, responsibilities, and security concerns? If there is a 'moral problem' wouldn't it lie in the fact of whether or not there was exploitation and/or neglect of the poor that were at the core of the modern day church?

Oh yeah, the critics kinda' see it that way don't they?

So if Dehlin makes less ($236,000 in 2019) than the compensation that General Authority (estimated $170,000-180,000 in today's dollars) receives...oh wait, it looks like he us making significantly more...does that make his profiting morally acceptable? Apparently he makes more than the compensation rate of a General Authority and while doing so, leading more than a few out of the church. Using "Mormon" as his brand.

I can see why after all this time the church might be getting a bit pissed off.

Regards,
MG

The issue is not simply “being poor.” There issue is the core teachings of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels: Do not concern yourself with the things of this world, especially the accumulation of wealth. Your reward is not in this life — it is in the next.

That’s what he taught. If one purports to be a Christian, one either sees this as an eternal truth or retreats into moral relativism as an excuse for not being willing to follow his teachings. Accumulating billions of dollars for use in this like is antithetical to how Jesus taught his followers to live.

It’s the hypocrisy.

Does John purport to be a Christian? If not, then it isn’t hypocritical for him to accumulate wealth from MS. Comparing Dehlin to the COJCOLDS is apples and vacuum cleaners.

It would also be hypocritical for the church to be “pissed off” at Dehlin for persuading people to leave the LDS Church, given its enormous effort to persuade others from leaving their current churches.

[MG 2.0]

Why is the lifestyle gap between Jesus and His early apostles automatically discrediting? You seem to be saying that the correct standard for any modern religious leader is to mirror the exact socioeconomic conditions that were present during ancient times. Even if the apostles at the time of Jesus were materially poor does it follow that any religious leader who is not equally poor is illegitimate or hypocritical?

Have you considered that the compensation and/or institutional 'perks' might be justified because of organizational size, responsibilities, and security concerns? If there is a 'moral problem' wouldn't it lie in the fact of whether or not there was exploitation and/or neglect of the poor that were at the core of the modern day church?

Oh yeah, the critics kinda' see it that way don't they?

So if Dehlin makes less ($236,000 in 2019) than the compensation that General Authority (estimated $170,000-180,000 in today's dollars) receives...oh wait, it looks like he us making significantly more...does that make his profiting morally acceptable? Apparently he makes more than the compensation rate of a General Authority and while doing so, leading more than a few out of the church. Using "Mormon" as his brand.

I can see why after all this time the church might be getting a bit pissed off.

Regards,
MG

The issue is not simply “being poor.” There issue is the core teachings of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels: Do not concern yourself with the things of this world, especially the accumulation of wealth. Your reward is not in this life — it is in the next.

That’s what he taught. If one purports to be a Christian, one either sees this as an eternal truth or retreats into moral relativism as an excuse for not being willing to follow his teachings. Accumulating billions of dollars for use in this like is antithetical to how Jesus taught his followers to live.

I think I responded to your concern.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

The issue is not simply “being poor.” There issue is the core teachings of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels: Do not concern yourself with the things of this world, especially the accumulation of wealth. Your reward is not in this life — it is in the next.

That’s what he taught. If one purports to be a Christian, one either sees this as an eternal truth or retreats into moral relativism as an excuse for not being willing to follow his teachings. Accumulating billions of dollars for use in this like is antithetical to how Jesus taught his followers to live.

I think I responded to your concern.

Regards,
MG

No you didn’t. You just threw Jesus under the bus.