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DCP wrote:I sometimes encounter the complaint from some atheists that they don’t even desire immortality because, they say, eternal life would be unendurably boring.

I don’t take the complaint very seriously. Maybe they’re tired of life, but I’m not. On any given day, if I were to be told that I could choose between my life ending (even painlessly) at midnight, on the one hand, and, on the other, having at least one more day, I would always choose the latter. I would prefer to think of the next day, of the next minute, rather than of “forever” as some sort of concrete and monolithic reality, and I’m always up for the next minute and the next day. I’ll always elect for yet another dip in the pool, yet another Alpine panorama or tropical seascape, tomorrow’s chocolate milkshake or chicken coconut kurma, one more repetition of Pachelbel’s Canon, one more viewing of Groundhog Day, that really interesting book that sits still unread on my bookshelf, that great novel that I’ve been meaning to read forever but still haven’t managed to open. I’ve always found it difficult to call it quits and turn the lights off at night. Am I bored by tours to the Middle East? I can see why one might imagine touring the same places again and again to grow boring. But I always enjoy introducing people for their first time to the pyramids and Caesarea Philippi and the Hagia Sophia.

Alex O'Connor wrote:Most people instinctively think that there is some kind of meaning to life. They just sort of assume that it's there in the same way that if you ask them, "Why are you getting out of bed to go to work? Why are you doing that to make money? Why to provide for my family? Why to bring up my children healthily? Why because I want my children to be healthy? Why? What do you mean why?" For some people, they just don't recognize the question. They're just like, "What are you talking about?" For other people, they hear that and they go, "Gosh, you know what? Fair enough, I actually don't know." The nihilist is someone who sort of takes a bird's eye view of it and realizes that it's all a little bit meaningless. It is nicer to think that you are here for some kind of reason that's written into the rules of the universe than that it all is just a happy or unhappy accident.

Alex O'Connor wrote:One of the still greatest expositions of nihilism that can be found in the printed word is the book of Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament.

Ecclesiastes takes us through the reflections of this man, this anonymous author. Some have tried to identify him, but it doesn't really matter who it is. We know that he was a great man, a king. He lived an illustrious life, but he saw no meaning in it. And he keeps coming back to this word "Hevel (הֶבֶל)," which means literally something like "wind." And so it's translated as "vanity" by the King James. Vanity of vanities. Everything is vanity. Meaningless. Meaningless. Everything is meaningless is one translation. Absurd, absurd. Everything is absurd is my favorite. He's like, "I denied my eyes no pleasure that they saw. If I wanted something, I took it. I drank wine, I partied, I lived life. But in the end, I saw that it was all "Hevil." It was all just wind.

It's just... Nothing. It just happens. And then it's gone. And it doesn't mean anything. But the most interesting thing is that it seems to suggest that everything that this guy was saying was true, that it is all just wind, but that somehow, by just fearing God and keeping His commandments, you have somehow solved the problem. I don't think that that's a very satisfying solution. But then I think that that is the great theme of nihilistic literature. People try for a kind of solution, but ultimately, for me, at least, they seem relatively unsatisfying.

Ecclesiastes wrote:I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity. I said of laughter, It is mad: and of mirth, What doeth it? I sought in mine heart to give myself unto wine, yet acquainting mine heart with wisdom; and to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was that good for the sons of men, which they should do under the heaven all the days of their life.

I made me great works; I builded me houses; I planted me vineyards: I made me gardens and orchards, and I planted trees in them of all kind of fruits: I made me pools of water, to water therewith the wood that bringeth forth trees: I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house; also I had great possessions of great and small cattle above all that were in Jerusalem before me: I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, as musical instruments, and that of all sorts.

So I was great, and increased more than all that were before me in Jerusalem: also my wisdom remained with me. And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy; for my heart rejoiced in all my labour: and this was my portion of all my labour. Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.

Everybody Wang Chung wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 02, 2026 8:19 pm

Frankly, it’s hard to beat the Afore's lifestyle. Especially when the poolside lounging, the trips, the chocolate shakes, and the endless supply of coconut korma are all billed directly to the Interpreter Foundation’s tab.

DCP wrote: I would always choose the latter. I would prefer to think of the next day, of the next minute, rather than of “forever” as some sort of concrete and monolithic reality

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 03, 2026 1:57 am

Sorry, I had to go back for this in particular:

DCP wrote: I would always choose the latter. I would prefer to think of the next day, of the next minute, rather than of “forever” as some sort of concrete and monolithic reality

This is a MASSIVE contradiction with his previous positions. In one version of his previous argument, he'd say that the reason the atheist can't enjoy a life of simple pleasures is because anything that comes to an end is meaningless. In other words, only by the assurance of the concrete and monolithic reality of food and travel for eternity, can food and travel have any meaning today.

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 03, 2026 1:41 am

Thanks for the heads-up drumdude, this is quite revealing. I have to point out that the Afore is epically inconsistent in his sermons on morality and meaning. I agree with you and Alex, Alex is the first YouTube atheist I've found to be likable, and he makes a great point. In fact, Kierkegaard made a similar one, that Dan's lifestyle is that of the aesthete. He's basically describing the aesthetic free-wheeling life of good times. Right down to the fact that he keeps putting off reading and finishing books. Why doesn't he take some time to seriously reflect on "meaning" and present a consistent argument for it? Well, he's got the intellect and then some, but that would be "boring". It's not fun. It's more fun to eat, drink, and be merry, even if the drink is alcohol free and filled with sugar.

But, I'll tell you, he's made the exact opposite argument in the past. He's claimed that non-believers whom he's known justify their empty lives by appealing to simple things -- walks in park, and so on. These simple things have meaning for them, they claim, but Dan questioned that. There are, in fact, many non-believers who share his perspective on living for the next day. I'm sure Elon Musk has no reservations about becoming immortal should he get the chance.

Several years ago, I read some heartfelt online advice from an atheist.

“Life is a one-time roller coaster ride,” he said.

Revel in it. Feel the warm sun on your skin and the cool wind in your hair. Feel the climb up, and take in the rides to the bottom. Don’t spend the entire experience preparing and fretting for what others in the line told you about the exit and what they think comes after, otherwise you will miss the entire experience.

I have little doubt that his advice was sincere. But it’s also misdirected.

Religious believers are convinced that there is an unfathomably vast world out there beyond the exit gate for this particular ride. To continue the poster’s metaphor, those who have come to the amusement park with tickets for other attractions, money to buy food when it’s lunchtime and jackets to wear in the evening will be able to enjoy much more than just the one feature.

They’re going to have a better time than those who were focused so intently on enjoying their “one time roller coaster ride” that, at its end, they lack the resources or ability to enjoy anything else.