The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

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I Have Questions
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The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

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Peterson desperately wants to believe in Near Death Experiences. To that end he’s reading a book by Reggie Anderson who recounts a supernatural experience. I’ll let Peterson explain…
Earlier this evening, I read a few more pages in the book by Reggie Anderson, written with Jennifer Schuchmann, that I mentioned here a couple of days ago. It’s entitled Appointments with Heaven: The True Story of a Country Doctor’s Healing Encounters With the Hereafter (Carol Stream, IL: Tyndale Momentum, 2013).

Dr. Anderson grew up in a quite believing Baptist family in rural Alabama, and he himself was religious until a terrible family tragedy destroyed his faith. He describes at some length how, when he was very young, he was exceptionally close to his relatives Jerry and Jimmy Alday in Georgia, typically spending summers with them raising fruit and transporting it to market and helping them with their sales both. They were good men and devout Christians. The family tragedy is what he calls the “Alday Massacre” but what Wikipedia labels the “Alday family murders.”
Three convicts escaped from prison in Maryland in May 1973, picking up a fourth person on their eventually way to Florida. First, though, they killed a nineteen-year-old man in Pennsylvania in order to steal his car. Then they headed south. Near Donalson, Georgia, in Seminole County, they murdered six members of the Alday family – five men (Jerry, Ned, Jimmy, Chester, and Aubrey Alday) and one woman (Mary Alday), whom they raped repeatedly before killing her.

The young Reggie Anderson spent the next seven years not only rejecting the existence of a deity who could have prevented those appallingly brutal murders but didn’t, but also — paradoxically but, in psychological terms, understandably — feeling bitter anger toward God. During his first year of medical school, though, in (of all places!) his Gross Anatomy class, he began to dimly sense the remarkable complexity of the human body and, from that, to intuit the existence of a designer.

However, it’s an extraordinarily vivid dream that he has while camping in the woods during a break from his medical studies that really turns him around. He recounts the dream on pages 79-83:

I opened my eyes to the most fantastical countryside imaginable: everything was vivid and radiant. All of my senses were finely tuned, like I had awakened in some enhanced version of reality. In front of me, a picturesque meadow was filled with vibrantly colored wildflowers. Pops of yellow, orange, red, blue, and indigo swayed with the breeze like living rainbows. The green was the lushest green I’d ever laid eyes on; the hue so saturated, it seemed like a new color to me. The spender before me was stunning! . . .

I inhaled the most fragrant scent, so light and pleasing — like a mixture of citrus and lilac . . . (79)

Everything felt so real, more intense and tangible than my ordinary life. My senses seemed to awaken and open like a flower to the sun. I could see, hear, touch, smell, and feel things as never before. I didn’t feel like I was in a dream; I felt like this was the real life I’d always been searching for. This was more real than my life. (80; italics in the original)
Let’s pause for a moment as I want to note that this was NOT a claimed near death experience, it was a dream. An important distinction I think. Anyway, let’s continue…
Those who are familiar with accounts of near-death experiences will be familiar with the reported hyper-reality of the dream and with the description of lush and even unfamiliar colors. And those who read the passage that I cited two days ago will now recognize the significance of his reference to “the familiar fragrance of lilac and citrus.”

More importantly, though, he says that he saw Jimmy, Jerry, Mary, Ned, Chester, and Aubrey Alday, who had been viciously murdered in Georgia in 1973. And they looked happy and unscarred. They belonged where they were, and they were joyful.

More importantly still, though, Dr. Anderson believes that he met Jesus. And he when he emerged from his dream, he was a Christian.
Whoa! What? He met Jesus? Peterson goes on to explain. Or rather, he doesn’t. Peterson doesn’t go further. Why not? Intrigued I searched for what Reggie Anderson himself had to say on the matter.

I found this interview transcript
After a day of hiking, he did some reading and fell into a deep sleep, finding himself in a dream like no other. His senses took on the kind of otherworldly qualities you hear about in near-death encounters, like ultrasaturated colors and aromatic scents. Suddenly the family that had been killed appeared to him. “They didn’t speak with words,” Anderson says, but they somehow communicated to him they were in a world of paradise and had no regrets.

And then came the ultimate healing. Like a father welcoming his prodigal son into his arms, Jesus appeared as a brilliant presence with an ageless and raceless form. Everything about Him radiated love and warmth. Without speaking, He beckoned Anderson near and told him about his future.

At dawn, Anderson was still laying on the ground next to the campfire.

“I woke up, and I was completely different,” he says.

He felt humbled. The mysterious dream not only sealed his faith, but it also cleansed him of his anger and made him desire more of God.

“Dreams don’t always change your life,” he says. “[But] this was a Damascus Road event. It actually changed the chemistry of my spirit.”
Why did Peterson stop short of explaining the details of Reggie Anderson’s first vision where Jesus appeared to him? Does Peterson believe that Reggie Anderson actually saw Jesus in a vision, just like Joseph claims (retrospectively) to have done? If not, why not? In what way or ways is Reggie Anderson’s account less valid than Joseph’s? How can a non Priesthood holder meet with Jesus? The dilemma is, that if you discount Reggie Anderson’s visitation with Jesus you just then discount the rest of it as merely a dream. And if that is merely a dream, then the marked parallel of its content to NDE’s places the latter in the realm of dreams rather than experiences.
Yet over the years, the sensations Anderson experienced in his dream have come back in his medical practice, particularly as patients cross the veil between life and death. Sights, aromas, temperature changes—“each time is different,” he says.

The first time Anderson attended a patient who died, he says he felt a warm sensation move through the cold hospital room as the man took his last breath. Then he noticed a momentary soft glow above and to the right of the man’s body, and he felt a “deep sense of peace and an embracing comfort,” he says.

Since then, Anderson has felt that warm presence many times with dying patients.
I would suggest that this is a stronger witness of Jesus than anything any modern LDS Apostle has ever tried to muster. Reggie was bold and declared his personal witness of Jesus in unequivocal terms, and used a direct experience with Jesus. He’s either closer to Jesus than Oaks & Co. or he’s mistaken about what happened and it was just a dream. Either way it’s bad news for LDS apologetics.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

Post by Gadianton »

hyper-reality of the dream and with the description of lush and even unfamiliar colors
How do you describe unfamiliar colors? I'm reminded of Wittgenstein's blurbs on private language. :lol:

But anyways, it's interesting how in all the afterlife stories the sights, sounds, tastes(?) are generally "indescribable" (save for the linguistically gifted who know of the pure thing in itself and are first to assign the words). Return from Tomorrow is the baseline, and going by that, the music and majesty of the scenes the author saw couldn't be described, as the author put it "Bach is only the beginning." So we got that, everything is visually stunning, yet the plots are completely predictable.

That basically covers all of NDE's, alien abductions, and every movie Hollywood remakes. It's the search for finding meaning and depth in triviality.
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Re: The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

Post by Tom »

I write to urge the Afore to exercise great caution when sharing excerpts from the book under discussion and others like it. He should take care not to spread false doctrine. A few days ago, in commenting on a different passage in the country doctor’s book, he wrote:
It’s not a Latter-day Saint book, but the language, thus far, is entirely consistent with Latter-day Saint beliefs and with Latter-day Saint attitudes toward death and the world to come.
That’s the litmus test. If Doc Anderson slips by giving an account of a dream in which the scent of flowers he encountered mirrored the aromas of a Viognier or a Beaujolais, the Afore can safely set that dream aside as inconsistent with the Word of Wisdom and thus uninspired.

And if Doc Anderson claims he had a dream in which he saw Jesus and many other people, and Jesus, for example, “inhabited more of a presence in the midst of the crowd than a human form, yet he definitely had human qualities” (p. 81), then it’s clear that the dream was not from God. That’s certainly not the corporeal, resurrected Jesus that the Prophet Joseph Smith and other Latter-day Saint prophets and apostles have testified of. Such an account should not be excerpted by the Afore in volume five of his forthcoming seven-volume work, A Reasonable Leap into Light: An Exhaustive Secular Argument for the Gospel.

I recommend that the Afore draw liberally from two canonical NDE accounts, Embraced by the Light by Betty J. Eadie and Added Upon by Nephi Anderson, to make his cumulative case for Latter-day Saint theism.
Last edited by Tom on Wed Apr 29, 2026 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

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Let’s take DCP’s hypothesis seriously. That NDEs are a trip to the other side of the veil.

Mormon God chooses to remain hidden even there. You don’t see people who experience NDEs coming back to preach of Moroni and Lehi and Joseph and Brigham. They aren’t talking about spirit missionaries. They don’t see multiple levels of heaven. In short, NDEs have nothing to do with Mormonism. Unless the person happens to already be Mormon.

Mormon God readily appeared to Joseph in the grove but he can’t bother to give one shred of Mormon missionary work to those who have “died” during a NDE. Weird.

It’s almost like people experiencing NDEs only have what is already in their material mind to draw from…
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Re: The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

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drumdude wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2026 6:24 pm
Let’s take DCP’s hypothesis seriously. That NDEs are a trip to the other side of the veil.

Mormon God chooses to remain hidden even there. You don’t see people who experience NDEs coming back to preach of Moroni and Lehi and Joseph and Brigham. They aren’t talking about spirit missionaries. They don’t see multiple levels of heaven. In short, NDEs have nothing to do with Mormonism. Unless the person happens to already be Mormon.

Mormon God readily appeared to Joseph in the grove but he can’t bother to give one shred of Mormon missionary work to those who have “died” during a NDE. Weird.

It’s almost like people experiencing NDEs only have what is already in their material mind to draw from…
And why the convoluted Space Oddity perspectives? Every single time a NDE or Visionary experience is described it is as if the story teller can't find the right words to describe it. Joseph said I saw two personages whose brightness and glory defy all description. How about stating something? Anything? Its almost as if they are in dream states and the subconscious mind doesn't have access to the left hemisphere of the brain and substitutes either confusion or bizarre random placements of people or other objects. You know like when people morph into other people?
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Re: The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Rivendale wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2026 10:12 pm
drumdude wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2026 6:24 pm
Let’s take DCP’s hypothesis seriously. That NDEs are a trip to the other side of the veil.

Mormon God chooses to remain hidden even there. You don’t see people who experience NDEs coming back to preach of Moroni and Lehi and Joseph and Brigham. They aren’t talking about spirit missionaries. They don’t see multiple levels of heaven. In short, NDEs have nothing to do with Mormonism. Unless the person happens to already be Mormon.

Mormon God readily appeared to Joseph in the grove but he can’t bother to give one shred of Mormon missionary work to those who have “died” during a NDE. Weird.

It’s almost like people experiencing NDEs only have what is already in their material mind to draw from…
And why the convoluted Space Oddity perspectives? Every single time a NDE or Visionary experience is described it is as if the story teller can't find the right words to describe it. Joseph said I saw two personages whose brightness and glory defy all description. How about stating something? Anything? Its almost as if they are in dream states and the subconscious mind doesn't have access to the left hemisphere of the brain and substitutes either confusion or bizarre random placements of people or other objects. You know like when people morph into other people?
Rivendale,

You’re right about the vagueness and most of these NDEs feel like a classic "trust me, bro" move. I guess it's just much easier to claim something defies description than it is to provide a coherent and detailed account.
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Re: The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

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I can testify to having incredibly vivid dreams. Dreams about extraordinary things, dreams about ordinary things. Dreams that felt as real as real life, which made waking up a huge surprise. I don’t think I’m alone in that.

The brain is perfectly capable of creating these NDEs that Dan is so obsessed about. That’s why some emergency rooms put hidden messages above the cabinets in the room. The person “floating out of their body viewing themselves from below” would see them and report them.

Of course, no patients ever report the hidden messages. Because the most likely explanation for a NDE is that they aren’t really floating above themselves. Their brain simply imagined it.

Dan never wants to actually subject these things to any sort of test where they can be proven wrong. He doesn’t want to test his dousing experience. He doesn’t want to share his spiritual experiences.

Because once Dan puts them to the test and they fail, he’s just lost an apologetic argument. He doesn’t want to live in a universe where his Mormon religion is false. He wants to maintain his Mormon God delusion. Best to just live in hope and ignorance than actually examine these things closely.
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Re: The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

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drumdude wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2026 11:40 pm
I can testify to having incredibly vivid dreams. Dreams about extraordinary things, dreams about ordinary things. Dreams that felt as real as real life, which made waking up a huge surprise. I don’t think I’m alone in that.

The brain is perfectly capable of creating these NDEs that Dan is so obsessed about. That’s why some emergency rooms put hidden messages above the cabinets in the room. The person “floating out of their body viewing themselves from below” would see them and report them.

Of course, no patients ever report the hidden messages. Because the most likely explanation for a NDE is that they aren’t really floating above themselves. Their brain simply imagined it.

Dan never wants to actually subject these things to any sort of test where they can be proven wrong. He doesn’t want to test his dousing experience. He doesn’t want to share his spiritual experiences.

Because once Dan puts them to the test and they fail, he’s just lost an apologetic argument. He doesn’t want to live in a universe where his Mormon religion is false. He wants to maintain his Mormon God delusion. Best to just live in hope and ignorance than actually examine these things closely.
I am able to do lucid dreaming occasionally. That in itself opens the door to every single supernatural claim that involves impressions, revelations and confirmation of ones faith.
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Re: The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

Post by malkie »

Rivendale wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2026 11:49 pm
drumdude wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2026 11:40 pm
I can testify to having incredibly vivid dreams. Dreams about extraordinary things, dreams about ordinary things. Dreams that felt as real as real life, which made waking up a huge surprise. I don’t think I’m alone in that.

The brain is perfectly capable of creating these NDEs that Dan is so obsessed about. That’s why some emergency rooms put hidden messages above the cabinets in the room. The person “floating out of their body viewing themselves from below” would see them and report them.

Of course, no patients ever report the hidden messages. Because the most likely explanation for a NDE is that they aren’t really floating above themselves. Their brain simply imagined it.

Dan never wants to actually subject these things to any sort of test where they can be proven wrong. He doesn’t want to test his dousing experience. He doesn’t want to share his spiritual experiences.

Because once Dan puts them to the test and they fail, he’s just lost an apologetic argument. He doesn’t want to live in a universe where his Mormon religion is false. He wants to maintain his Mormon God delusion. Best to just live in hope and ignorance than actually examine these things closely.
I am able to do lucid dreaming occasionally. That in itself opens the door to every single supernatural claim that involves impressions, revelations and confirmation of ones faith.
Have you read any of the works of Carlos Castaneda?
Wikipedia: Carlos Castaneda wrote:... in his later works towards the end of his life, Castaneda attempts to explain the true nature of reality, describing reality as being composed of an "extensive web of energy that emanates from the central source" known as "the Eagle", focusing on the practice of lucid dreaming as well as "stalking" (changing one's personality, environment, and/or habitual behaviour, etc).
I wonder also if DCP has read Castaneda's works.
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Re: The dilemma posed by Reggie Anderson’s first vision…

Post by drumdude »

Rivendale wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2026 11:49 pm
drumdude wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2026 11:40 pm
I can testify to having incredibly vivid dreams. Dreams about extraordinary things, dreams about ordinary things. Dreams that felt as real as real life, which made waking up a huge surprise. I don’t think I’m alone in that.

The brain is perfectly capable of creating these NDEs that Dan is so obsessed about. That’s why some emergency rooms put hidden messages above the cabinets in the room. The person “floating out of their body viewing themselves from below” would see them and report them.

Of course, no patients ever report the hidden messages. Because the most likely explanation for a NDE is that they aren’t really floating above themselves. Their brain simply imagined it.

Dan never wants to actually subject these things to any sort of test where they can be proven wrong. He doesn’t want to test his dousing experience. He doesn’t want to share his spiritual experiences.

Because once Dan puts them to the test and they fail, he’s just lost an apologetic argument. He doesn’t want to live in a universe where his Mormon religion is false. He wants to maintain his Mormon God delusion. Best to just live in hope and ignorance than actually examine these things closely.
I am able to do lucid dreaming occasionally. That in itself opens the door to every single supernatural claim that involves impressions, revelations and confirmation of ones faith.
I wonder if people in Joseph Smith’s time even knew lucid dreaming existed.
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