Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

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I Have Questions
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Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by I Have Questions »

In what is probably an attempt at combating what he perceived to be a diminishing interest in him by this board, Peterson raises the hot button topic of the Priesthood Ban, and attempts to gaslight his reading and himself with the following…
I hope that I’ve made it clear enough and mentioned often enough that I found the pre-1978 priesthood ban baffling and, to say the least of it, awkward, and that I was absolutely delighted when it was rescinded. The day that I heard about President Spencer W. Kimball’s priesthood revelation — I was in Zollikofen, Switzerland, at the time, slowly returning from six months in the Middle East — was one of the happiest days of my life. I glowed for weeks thereafter. (Of course, I’ve had a few critics claim that I’m lying about this, just as I lie about almost everything else. I was, they insinuate, entirely on board with the ban because I’m both servile and a racist. Or something to that effect. There seems no point in insisting that I’m telling the truth, though; once they’ve decided that I’m an inveterate liar, they’re not likely to accept any claim that I make. Oh well.)
Oh well indeed. You see Dan, you cannot wave your hands and pretend that you were a stand up guy about it at the time. You weren’t. You raised your hand to the square to sustain those leaders who maintained the ban on black men and women entering the temple, and the ban on black men holding the Priesthood. By not raising a dissenting vote you are as culpable for it as the Church is.

Will you now publicly apologise for voting to sustain the Priesthood Ban in the years prior to June 1978? Your post is cheap gaslighting unless or until you are willing to do that.

Personally I have already apologised on this board for sustaining it by voting in favour of sustaining the leadership of that time period. Yes I was quite young at the time. Not an adult. But I’m still embarrassed that I didn’t have enough about me to recognise that it was wrong and to say so, and to take a stand at the time. Howabout you Dan?
That said, however, I tend to resist confident assertions that the priesthood policy was, simply, the product of racism, that it was an evil mistake, and that the Church should therefore apologize for it. I have no theory of its origin to offer, no theological justification to provide for it, no apologetic to make on its behalf. I simply point to the fact that at least some Church leaders had hoped to rescind it earlier but felt themselves prevented (by the Lord himself) from doing so.
Quite the washing your hands of it there Dan. With such flimsy and meaningless fencesitting, is it any wonder that your fellow members in Utah are still exhibiting racism towards black members? Is it any wonder there are no black Apostles? How many black men or women are presenting at this year’s Interpreter Conference Dan?
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Gadianton
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by Gadianton »

Right, I don't buy it. First of all, the ban makes quite a bit of sense in context of Mormon theology in particular, but in general, most religions and cultures see themselves as central to God's purpose and outsiders are either bad or must convert. You can't be a fan of the Bible without being a racist of sorts as the whole thing is predicated on the lineage of Shem being superior to that of Ham and Japeth. At the very end of the book you can argue it either way, Paul seemed to think that the whole lineage thing is absurd, and his voice is the loudest. But Jesus himself seemed to set up outsiders as foils to the elite. "I can trust this prostitute (or this Samaritan) more than I can trust you vipers who are supposedly my own!" It's very much along the lines of what I'd expect from religion in general. It makes perfect sense in the context of religion in general, "my people are the chosen ones" which has a range of consequences for those who aren't your people.

But then, at the same time, you have conservativism of the day. Wasn't this guy a young conservative since age ten or something? William Buckley had the predictable racist views of the Southern white man. So this guy, as a young conservative in addition to seeing through the cultural baggage of Mormonism was also at total odds with William Buckley and the National Review crowd even though the National Review was his favorite publication?

So yeah, show me the evidence. A lot people who had supported Hitler were like, "I'm so glad this is over! I never really agreed with it in the first place" after WWII ended. It's really easy to take that position in hindsight.

I don't think this guy, in terms of D&D language, is "chaotic evil" at all. Lawful good and chaotic evil both require a belief in higher principles beyond the default case of reductive materialism. I think he is "neutral" -- whatever is best for him personally.
Lost Gospel of Thomas 1:8 - And Jesus said, "what about the Pharisees? They did it too! Wherefore, we shall do it even more!"
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Shulem
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"Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood"

Post by Shulem »

Does anyone know if dumb Dan has tendered an excuse for why the black man in Facsimile No. 3 was banned from the priesthood and why Smith mutilated his face?

ANUBIS MUTILATED BY SMITH AND LIKE KING PHARAOH WAS BANNED FROM THE PRIESTHOOD

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Image


fu John Gee!
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by drumdude »

The church and its leaders weren’t racist. They were just following orders.

Where have I heard that rock solid argument before…
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by Shulem »

drumdude wrote:
Fri May 29, 2026 2:57 pm
The church and its leaders weren’t racist. They were just following orders.

Where have I heard that rock solid argument before…

Whose orders did Abraham follow?

Read the ridiculous account given in the Book of Abraham chapter one and see just how corrupt Mormonism is to the core.

Rotten!
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by Tom »

I Have Questions wrote:
Fri May 29, 2026 8:43 am
In what is probably an attempt at combating what he perceived to be a diminishing interest in him by this board, Peterson raises the hot button topic of the Priesthood Ban, and attempts to gaslight his reading and himself with the following…
I hope that I’ve made it clear enough and mentioned often enough that I found the pre-1978 priesthood ban baffling and, to say the least of it, awkward, and that I was absolutely delighted when it was rescinded. The day that I heard about President Spencer W. Kimball’s priesthood revelation — I was in Zollikofen, Switzerland, at the time, slowly returning from six months in the Middle East — was one of the happiest days of my life. I glowed for weeks thereafter. (Of course, I’ve had a few critics claim that I’m lying about this, just as I lie about almost everything else. I was, they insinuate, entirely on board with the ban because I’m both servile and a racist. Or something to that effect. There seems no point in insisting that I’m telling the truth, though; once they’ve decided that I’m an inveterate liar, they’re not likely to accept any claim that I make. Oh well.)
Oh well indeed. You see Dan, you cannot wave your hands and pretend that you were a stand up guy about it at the time. You weren’t. You raised your hand to the square to sustain those leaders who maintained the ban on black men and women entering the temple, and the ban on black men holding the Priesthood. By not raising a dissenting vote you are as culpable for it as the Church is.

Will you now publicly apologise for voting to sustain the Priesthood Ban in the years prior to June 1978? Your post is cheap gaslighting unless or until you are willing to do that.

Personally I have already apologised on this board for sustaining it by voting in favour of sustaining the leadership of that time period. Yes I was quite young at the time. Not an adult. But I’m still embarrassed that I didn’t have enough about me to recognise that it was wrong and to say so, and to take a stand at the time. Howabout you Dan?
That said, however, I tend to resist confident assertions that the priesthood policy was, simply, the product of racism, that it was an evil mistake, and that the Church should therefore apologize for it. I have no theory of its origin to offer, no theological justification to provide for it, no apologetic to make on its behalf. I simply point to the fact that at least some Church leaders had hoped to rescind it earlier but felt themselves prevented (by the Lord himself) from doing so.
Quite the washing your hands of it there Dan. With such flimsy and meaningless fencesitting, is it any wonder that your fellow members in Utah are still exhibiting racism towards black members? Is it any wonder there are no black Apostles? How
Many black men or women are presenting at this year’s Interpreter Conference Dan?
Afore wrote:I simply point to the fact [sic] that at least some Church leaders had hoped to rescind it earlier but felt themselves prevented (by the Lord himself) from doing so.
The “fact”? Where did the Afore establish the “fact” that some church leaders felt prevented by the Lord from rescinding the ban?

The following thread is relevant: viewtopic.php?p=2802940#p2802940

(Then, as now, the Afore does not acknowledge that none other than Paul Dunn is the source of one quotation he cites.)
Last edited by Tom on Fri May 29, 2026 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

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Back in 2012, a BYU professor got in trouble for saying the quiet parts out loud. Deep doctrine like this is only meant to be shared in the back corners of the high priests room:
The reactions spring from comments attributed to Bott in a Tuesday Washington Post article by Jason Horowitz, titled 'The Genesis of a church's stance on race.' Bott is quoted in the article as saying:

'In his office, religion professor Randy Bott explains a possible theological underpinning of the ban. According to Mormon scriptures, the descendants of Cain, who killed his brother, Abel, 'were black.' One of Cain’s descendants was Egyptus, a woman Mormons believe was the namesake of Egypt. She married Ham, whose descendants were themselves cursed and, in the view of many Mormons, barred from the priesthood by his father, Noah. Bott points to the Mormon holy text the Book of Abraham as suggesting that all of the descendants of Ham and Egyptus were thus black and barred from the priesthood.

“ 'God has always been discriminatory' when it comes to whom he grants the authority of the priesthood,' says Bott, the BYU theologian. He quotes Mormon scripture that states that the Lord gives to people 'all that he seeth fit.' Bott compares blacks with a young child prematurely asking for the keys to her father’s car, and explains that similarly until 1978, the Lord determined that blacks were not yet ready for the priesthood.

“ 'What is discrimination?' Bott asks. 'I think that is keeping something from somebody that would be a benefit for them, right? But what if it wouldn’t have been a benefit to them?' Bott says that the denial of the priesthood to blacks on Earth — although not in the afterlife — protected them from the lowest rungs of hell reserved for people who abuse their priesthood powers. 'You couldn’t fall off the top of the ladder, because you weren’t on the top of the ladder. So, in reality the blacks not having the priesthood was the greatest blessing God could give them.' ”
https://universe.BYU.edu/2012/02/29/pro ... gton-post/
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by I Have Questions »

drumdude wrote:
Fri May 29, 2026 2:57 pm
The church and its leaders weren’t racist. They were just following orders.

Where have I heard that rock solid argument before…
In his current post Peterson has pinned the blame on Jesus Christ. Whilst stopping short of blaming Jesus Christ for starting the ban in the first place, Peterson noted previously...
’m struck, though, by the fact that — and, so that all will understand, I need to confess right now that I’m a believer who accepts the leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as genuine prophets and apostles — the Lord plainly seems to have permitted the ban on ordaining blacks to the priesthood to continue until June 1978. However it originated, that seems to me significant.
So really, Peterson does think the ban is, in part, of divine doing. At least that's why he believes it continued so long. Not as a result of racist leaders. So when he sustained those leaders, he wasn't sustaining racists. He was sustaining honourable leaders who really wanted to end the ban, but Jesus Christ prevented them from doing so until 1978. Okay, so Peterson is really calling Jesus Christ a bit of a racist then. Got it.

But he talks with a bit of a forked tongue...
Yes, Brigham Young (and others whom I revere as prophets and apostles) made comments that, certainly by today’s standards, were egregiously racist. I don’t attempt to defend those statements; the men who made them were, in that respect, very much of their time, region, socio-economic status, and educational level. They should, I believe, not be judged by the relatively-recently-attained high standards of contemporary American racial sensitivity.
Make your mind up Dan. Were the leaders that started and continued the ban through to 1978 simply acting out their cultural viewpoints (in which case those leaders are racists by todays standards), or were they obeying Jesus Christ in not ending a ban they knew to be racist?
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by drumdude »

He also recently said that the Second Coming of Christ could have been delayed by the actions of a couple men with a printing press. He has no coherent concept of God. It’s whatever he needs it to be to make whatever argument he needs to make. Sometimes God is the creator God. Sometimes He’s the moral foundation of the universe. Sometimes he’s just a limited flawed human being. It’s endlessly malleable, just like everything else in Mormonism.

This is what happens when your religion does theology the same way a toddler watercolors.
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Re: Peterson tries to excuse himself from the Priesthood Ban era

Post by Shulem »

Dumb Dan wrote:Yes, Brigham Young (and others whom I revere as prophets and apostles) made comments that, certainly by today’s standards, were egregiously racist. I don’t attempt to defend those statements; the men who made them were, in that respect, very much of their time, region, socio-economic status, and educational level. They should, I believe, not be judged by the relatively-recently-attained high standards of contemporary American racial sensitivity.

So, today's prophets are more advanced or spiritually minded then prophets back then? Aren't God's standards good enough for any time? So, prophets back then followed the standards of the world, or in other words, they were not spiritually minded but WORLDLY. Never mind the Spirit® of the Lord, it's the spirit of man and worldly standards that ruled the church and thus determined racists doctrines and policies until such time as the modern era forced the prophet (Kimball) to comply with higher standards. But, can't the Spirit® of God move men to do his bidding in any time or generation regardless of what the world thinks?

Dumb Dan is gaslighting his cult followers.

Fu, Dan, and the Book of Mormon horse you rode in on you fat ass. I could have never stood in a prayer circle with you. You are a demented man.

:twisted:
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