Donald Trump and DCP: A Tale of Two Narcissists

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Bought Yahoo
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Re: Donald Trump and DCP: A Tale of Two Narcissists

Post by Bought Yahoo »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:12 pm
Bought Yahoo wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:10 pm
...Brant Gardner's conclusions relating to Hebraisms in the Book of Mormon...
Would you mind summarizing those conclusions the way you see it?

Thanks,
MG
Brant said that Hebraisms as found in the Book of Mormon are simply products of the nineteenth century and or the King James Bible. As I recall, he had three volumes on the subject. Too much fluff in the work and it was published by Greg Kofford. Didn't seem to be edited. It could have been whittled down to a paper. It is (2011) The Gift and Power: Translating the Book of Mormon. Greg Kofford Books. ISBN 9781589581319.

For example, he took on chiasmus and said that it was simply serendipity. Of all of Brant's work on this subject, he wasn't convincing on the subject of chiasmus but his work was otherwise convincing.

The Interpreter had singled an intention to take Brant on. I don't think it ever did.
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Gadianton
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Re: Donald Trump and DCP: A Tale of Two Narcissists

Post by Gadianton »

Bought wrote:, but questioned the then-format of MI at any university
What was the "format" of the MI and why did you have a problem with it?
Bought wrote:he rubbed my nose in the ground over the issue.
It's not surprising he didn't want to take criticism over peer review at Interpreter. Articles are "gated", sure, but there's a difference between that and peer review.

Were you a supporter of the Dale's probability work? BOMC claimed Interpreter had that paper in peer review for a year (that was a boast).
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Re: Donald Trump and DCP: A Tale of Two Narcissists

Post by Moksha »

Bought Yahoo wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:10 pm
As I am a peer reviewer and understand the concept, I just couldn't believe the Interpreter's format and claim to be peer-reviewed. Rather than say, "Hey, you have your opinion. We do it our way to ensure accuracy," he rubbed my nose in the ground over the issue. [How could I know how Interpreter articles are reviewed? It is supposed to be a secret.]
Oh no! Not more dressing up in Reformed Egyptian garb and toasting s'mores on the backyard barbecue! As long as Allen Wyatt is the only one who has to shimmy into those fiberglass panties, then the others can eat their s'mores in relative peace before beginning the peer review chant and Allen's come hither dance.
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Re: Donald Trump and DCP: A Tale of Two Narcissists

Post by Don Bradley »

Moksha wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:57 am
One thing is certain, Trump would never relax in a La-Z-Boy recliner with a snifter of orange soda while listening to Tannhäuser and reading Alfred Ploetz in the original German.
:D :D :D :D :D

Right?!!

Say what you will about DCP, he is very, very highbrow.

Don
"People can find meaninglessness in just about anything if they convince themselves that there is no meaning in that thing." - The Rev. Dr. Lumen Kishkumen
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Re: Donald Trump and DCP: A Tale of Two Narcissists

Post by huckelberry »

There is not a a lot of comparisons, or majority of possible comparisions where Mr Peterson would appear to be a near saint but this is one where he does.
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Re: Donald Trump and DCP: A Tale of Two Narcissists

Post by Kishkumen »

Bought Yahoo wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:10 pm
In chron order, I think:

1. My sarcastic and bitter assessment of John Sorensen's work.

2. My disagreement with the conculsions of Nephi and his Asherah. That has brought me into collision with several people; most notably Kevin Christiansen (the "paradigm" and "Margaret Barker" fellow). Kevin is a super nice guy and I'm not. He's just wrong.

3. My criticism of Margaret Barker's conclusions. I could not be more opposed to her conclusions about the Temple and the Josian reforms.

4. My argument that BYU was justfied in terminating Dr. Peterson's involvement with leading the MI and editing its publications. I supported MI (and FARMS before it) with my money, and supported Dr. Peterson on numerous forums, but questioned the then-format of MI at any university.

5. My support for Brant Gardner's conclusions relating to Hebraisms in the Book of Mormon. [I'm not sure, however, that Dr. Peterson and I have ever discussed this.]

6. My questioning of Ye Olde English as having anything to do with the Book of Mormon and, more specifically, my questioning of the peer reviewed nature of the Interpreter. [In that regard, I consider the critical text project a collosal waste of time, energy and money. If the Church puts its imprimatur on the current text of the Book of Mormon, then other conclusions made by past leaders are irrelevant. For instance, before the Book of Mormon went into column format, there was a footnote that said that Lehi landed in Chile. I think Widstoe edited it out. What is the significance of that today?] As I am a peer reviewer and understand the concept, I just couldn't believe the Interpreter's format and claim to be peer reviewed. Rather than say, "Hey, you have your opinion. We do it our way to ensure accuracy," he rubbed my nose in the ground over the issue. [How could I know how Interpreter articles are reviewed? It is supposed to be a secret.] Not a problem, but an interesting anecdote in my life.

However, I have fond admiration for Dr. Peterson and what he has done in the LDS environment. The Church needs him and his writing, and in my view he is more deft at it than Dr. Nibley. I admire the fact that he rose from his resignation at MI and formed the Interpreter, which is better than the MI format and more in tune with the Internet. I admire his testimony and his intellect. He has saved many people. But he brooks no opposition and I simply question some of his positions. I suppose if he had the temperament of just another BYU professor he'd be quickly forgotten.

He is not narcissistic. He is simply an accomplished person. Quite different than the nasty bitterness I see on this board, but I understand it.
Well, Bought Yahoo, I sincerely doubt that his disagreements with you are personal in nature. He will publicly defend his position with great vigor, but behind the scenes I can't believe that he is at all angry with you or hurt about these differences of opinion. If there is some crack in your relationship, I hope you guys repair it. I think the apologetic arena is better off for your differences of opinion with each other. Both of you are deeply committed to the LDS Gospel and to defending it. When two people can disagree deeply on less important issues but be united in their love of the central pillars of the faith, that shows the robustness of the faith and the community, in my opinion.

Personally, I increasingly enjoy the apologetic community. I have come to appreciate many of you a lot more over the past couple of years, despite my lack of belief in what you are saying or lack of agreement with what you are arguing. There are lots of genuinely good people in that community. Sure, they frustrate me when they let me down in their arguments (in my own view), but that doesn't change the fact that they are basically good people, and, moreover, I like them. For example, I really like Brant Gardner, although I find much of what he has written in an apologetic vein to be completely unconvincing.

What is important here? I say charity. Unselfish love. Gratitude. Forgiveness. I hope I never reach a place where I abandon my commitment to core principles like those. If I can agree with Brian Hales on the importance of those things, my disagreement with him about the composition of the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith's polygamy should be unimportant. And, in my view, it is.
“The past no longer belongs only to those who once lived it; the past belongs to those who claim it, and are willing to
explore it, and to infuse it with meaning for those alive today.”—Margaret Atwood
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