LDS Church kept the lid on its $100B fund for fear tithing receipts would fall, account boss tells Wall Street Journal

[Analytics]

To drive home the point, MG, say one of your children got accepted to Harvard Medical School, and really wanted to get a medical degree for the noble purpose of dedicating the rest of his life to fighting malaria in Africa. With that as his goal, he simply cannot afford to borrow money to pay for medical school.

And let's say that you were retired and had a pension that was guaranteed to pay you $150k a year for the rest of your life, tax free, regardless of how old you lived. And let's say that your annual expenses were only $100k a year.

And let's say you had $5.0 million in the bank.

If your son told asked you for some money to help pay for medical school so that he could dedicate his life to fighting malaria, would you say the following? "I'd love to help but I can't. While it's true I have some money in the bank, I'm saving it for a rainy day. Sorry."

I wouldn't call such behavior "saving for a rainy day." I'd call it hoarding.

[Analytics]

Why would the church save money only for the sake of saving money?

Why do people play Monopoly?

The fact of the matter is that in general, executive directors of non-profits love having a giant hoard of cash. They enjoy watching it grow. It is fun. It makes them feel important. It adds security. A major point of charity watchdogs is to encourage transparency so that charities do not: 1- spend money frivolously and 2- do not save too much.

The Mormon Church is run by businessmen. Making money is what they do.

[mentalgymnast]

I honestly don’t see a problem with the church having a rainy day fund. Or families for that matter.

Of course Jesus taught that you should NOT have a rainy day fund...

He taught that we should be prepared.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/man ... s?lang=eng

Is it possible that the church has something in mind, that that may benefit the long range mission of the church and it’s members, as they accumulate a large nest egg in reserve?

PPPPPP. Prior proper planning prevents poor performance.

Regards,
MG

[Analytics]

A pretty good one, in my opinion. To me, bottom line is the lds church uses donated funds and then privately benefits from tax exemptions in ways that just barely, and only technically, follow the law. They keep every bit of information they can hidden, and take advantage of sincere people in truly repugnant ways. It is not a moral or ethical position to take.

Exactly. Ensign Peak Advisors is required to spend its money on its hypothetical charitable endeavors which wouldn't include developing commercial property. What it would probably say, however, is "Ensign Peak Advisors didn't spend any money developing commercial property. Rather, it responsibly saved its money for a rainy day by investing in some interest-paying bonds that happened to be issued by a for-profit division of the Mormon Church that was building a mall."

Barely following the letter of the law in a technical sense is exactly what they are aiming for. They certainly aren't following the spirit of the law.

[Analytics]

He taught that we should be prepared.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/man ... s?lang=eng

You really don't want to Bible bash me on this one, do you? The parable of the ten virgins isn't about saving money for a rainy day in direct contradiction of Matthew 6:34, Luke 18:22, etc. The parable is about being spiritually prepared.

Is it possible that the church has something in mind, that that may benefit the long range mission of the church and it’s members, as they accumulate a large nest egg in reserve?

PPPPPP. Prior proper planning prevents poor performance.

No, the Church doesn't have anything in mind to do with the money. They have a policy of adjusting annual expenses to be be 85% of expected tithing revenue. The result is a hoard of money. There is no plan on what to do with it, other than a vague notion that it might come in handy after Jesus comes back.

[mentalgymnast]

A rainy day fund that is 25 times the annual budget is not a rainy day fund. It is hoarding. It is saving money for the sake of saving money. It is making money an end unto itself.

Why would the church save money only for the sake of saving money?

Regards,
MG

*bump

By the way, when Jesus comes I doubt that this “hoard” you refer to will be of any use. It would need to be used up before then, while it still has value. Hedge fund managers are going to have to go elsewhere and look for work.

Regards,
MG

[mentalgymnast]

He taught that we should be prepared.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/man ... s?lang=eng

You really don't want to Bible bash me on this one, do you? The parable of the ten virgins isn't about saving money for a rainy day in direct contradiction of Matthew 6:34, Luke 18:22, etc. The parable is about being spiritually prepared.

One could argue that it’s pretty difficult for an organization meeting the needs of those seeking spiritual preparedness to do so without having the temporal means to keep the organization alive. At least until Jesus comes again.

At that point we might go to the story of the loaves and the fishes in the New Testament. Since we’re swapping scriptures back and forth.

Regards,
MG

[Lem]

Why do people play Monopoly?

The fact of the matter is that in general, executive directors of non-profits love having a giant hoard of cash. They enjoy watching it grow. It is fun. It makes them feel important. It adds security. A major point of charity watchdogs is to encourage transparency so that charities do not: 1- spend money frivolously and 2- do not save too much.

That's an interesting point about why to encourage transparency. #1 is a little more obvious, but #2 also violates the rules regarding nonprofits.

The Mormon Church is run by businessmen. Making money is what they do.

Well, that and lawyering. So they can keep their money. Or hide it. Or launder it. Whatever.

Barely following the letter of the law in a technical sense is exactly what they are aiming for. They certainly aren't following the spirit of the law.

That is exactly right, sadly.

[Analytics]

One could argue that it’s pretty difficult for an organization meeting the needs of those seeking spiritual preparedness to do so without having the temporal means to keep the organization alive.

Of course one could argue that. And it would be a great argument. But that doesn't mean it's what Jesus taught.

There are two ways of approaching the teachings of Jesus:

1- Some people look at what Jesus actually taught, as recorded in the Bible through the lens of textual criticism, and say that is what Jesus taught.

2- Others gather their own ideas of virtue and wisdom through various sources that aren't necessarily supported by the Bible, let alone the Gospels. They then decide that since that is what's virtuous and wise, it must be what Jesus taught, or at least what Jesus would approve of given present day circumstances.

When I said Jesus was against saving for a rainy day, I was approaching it through 1. It sounds like you were using approach two to channel Benjamin Franklin and ascribe his virtues to Jesus.

[mentalgymnast]

One could argue that it’s pretty difficult for an organization meeting the needs of those seeking spiritual preparedness to do so without having the temporal means to keep the organization alive.

Of course one could argue that. And it would be a great argument. But that doesn't mean it's what Jesus taught.

There are two ways of approaching the teachings of Jesus:

1- Some people look at what Jesus actually taught, as recorded in the Bible through the lens of textual criticism, and say that is what Jesus taught.

2- Others gather their own ideas of virtue and wisdom through various sources that aren't necessarily supported by the Bible, let alone the Gospels. They then decide that since that is what's virtuous and wise, it must be what Jesus taught, or at least what Jesus would approve of given present day circumstances.

When I said Jesus was against saving for a rainy day, I was approaching it through 1. It sounds like you were using approach two to channel Benjamin Franklin and ascribe his virtues to Jesus.

You sound like a fundamentalist. That can get you into trouble. From reading your posts I would think that you would be a more flexible person in your views towards scriptural exegesis and interpretation.

by the way, Noah was following the commands of Jehovah. Preparedness (was he over prepared?) saved him and his family. If Jesus was teaching preparedness way back then...and folks called Noah a crackpot...one might think there might be those who, today, might have similar viewpoints as they criticize and find fault with the brethren...and by association...the business managers for the church.

Regards,
MG