Midgley's "academic investigation" of "cultural Mormons"

[Doctor Scratch]

An interesting remark from Dr. Midgley over at "Sic et Non":

I began my academic investigation of those I then called cultural Mormons--that is, those on the margins of the Latter-day Saint culture--who had never believed or had ceased to believe in God and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and who also had a deep desire to fashion a new alternate explanation for the Church of Jesus Christ to at least justify to themselves that their unfaith rested on solid grounds. One of them actually insisted that there was what he called a "broad, promising middle ground between genuine prophet and fraud." Instead, Joseph Smith was merely a mystic, who sort of imagined things. Like exactly what?

Well those pesky plates, and even heavenly messengers. And a five hundred page book dictated to scribes by Joseph Smith while he was looking at a Seer Stone that he placed in a hat seemingly to block ambient light see a few words at a time. Mystics don't ever come to actually possess artifacts or have genuine conversations with heavenly messengers.

The fact is that even before those cultural Mormons had assumed ground temperature, no one except people like me gave them much if any attention. But millions find light and life in the full range of the complex contents in that amazing five hundred page book. And a host of scholars that I have been blessed to actually know have discovered features of this amazing book that open up its meaning about which Joseph Smith was entirely unaware.

"[A]ssumed ground temperature"? Well, presumably some of them--like Grant Hardy and Terryl Givens--are still at body temperature, no? But this is very interesting in terms of what it says about Mopologetics, and *how long* they've been in pursuit of this basic "mission." Midgley's quote, about a "broad, promising middle ground," is no doubt a reference to his vicious jeremiad, "No Middle Ground: The Debate over the Authenticity of the Book of Mormon," part of a 2001 collection edited by Paul Hoskisson. The quote he's referring to is from Marvin S. Hill, who is regarded, apparently, as one of the founding proponents of "new Mormon History," along with people like D. Michael Quinn and Leonard Arrington. So, of course Midgley hates all of these people. And thus you feel the strange "push-pull" of Mopologetics: you can see Midgley, with his horrible, anger-fueled temperament and adherence to orthodoxy, and then you get him paired up with somebody like DCP, who is more gregarious and politically savvy, but he's actually, legitimately good friends with Midgley, and accepts him "warts and all," and yet he's left to clean up messes like this, where Midgley is doing these psycho things that put them at odds with other high-ranking Mormon academics and bureaucrats.

In any case, it's always nice to see Bro. Midgley bearing his testimony.

[Gadianton]

The fact is that even before those cultural Mormons had assumed ground temperature, no one except people like me gave them much if any attention

It's fascinating how he works his own importance into the Mopologist narrative.

[Doctor Scratch]

The fact is that even before those cultural Mormons had assumed ground temperature, no one except people like me gave them much if any attention

It's fascinating how he works his own importance into the Mopologist narrative.

Well, he *is* important. I would argue that he’s the “heart and soul” of the more vicious arm of the movement. The “brain” of that arm is Jack Welch, and then DCP is the “cherubic” face, as it were—sort of like Mr. Kool-Aid.

[Gadianton]

You mean the big Kool-Aid pitcher that broke through brick walls and many who thirsted then "drank the Kool-Aid"?

Yes, you are right about Midgley's importance. But many folks out there have been important without obsessively pointing out to everybody how important they are.

I think that fact is important, because an obsessively self-important person who is always bragging about how important they are to everybody is the kind of person you'd expect to come unglued when somebody believes something that they don't.

[Moksha]

One of them actually insisted that there was what he called a "broad, promising middle ground between genuine prophet and fraud." Instead, Joseph Smith was merely a mystic, who sort of imagined things.
Mystics don't ever come to actually possess artifacts or have genuine conversations with heavenly messengers.

So no middle ground? Only a genuine prophet armed with a seer stone and stovepipe hat or else the most famous fraud of the 19th Century? Dude, you are painting yourself into a corner. The guy suggesting Joseph as a mystic was offering you a metaphorical portal from that corner.

[Doctor Scratch]

You mean the big Kool-Aid pitcher that broke through brick walls and many who thirsted then "drank the Kool-Aid"?

Indeed, that was the Mr. Kool-Aid I was referring to.

Yes, you are right about Midgley's importance. But many folks out there have been important without obsessively pointing out to everybody how important they are.

I think that fact is important, because an obsessively self-important person who is always bragging about how important they are to everybody is the kind of person you'd expect to come unglued when somebody believes something that they don't.

I find it very hard to disagree with anything you've said here, Dean Robbers.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

The fact is that even before those cultural Mormons had assumed ground temperature, no one except people like me gave them much if any attention

It's fascinating how he works his own importance into the Mopologist narrative.

Oh, boy. You’ll love this one then:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... qus_thread

I must also add the following comment, which came to my mind reading some of the items in this very blog.

Year [SIC] ago I spent four or five months, on lease [SIC] as I now recall, reading everything by Frank Knight, who was the very sarcastic and brilliant founder of the Chicago School of Economics. I ended up writing a fifty [SIC] single-spaced essay on Frank Knight, which I presented to a stunned audience of perhaps fifty scholars at one of the annual meetings of the American Political Science Association. [<- Uh huh.]

I did not seek to publish this essay for several reasons. One of which is that about a third of the essay was devoted to one unpublished essay by Knight, which was never published [Redundancy Alert.], but had become famous among his best students. It was called "The Case for Communism from the Point of View of an Ex-liberal." That title was highly ironic. By liberal he meant what Americans tend to most often call "conservative," since he and his students tended to be involved in what is still called the Mont Pelerin Society, which was established in 1947 by Friedrich August von Hayek, a famous Austrian/American economist, in Switzerland, which sort of explains its name. I have attended, if I remember correctly, two of its wonderful meetings. One was at Stanford University with then Elder Oaks, after he was replaced at BYU, and before he was called as an Apostle. I am confident that Professor Peterson has also been attended its meetings.

Frank Knight was notorious for his passionate atheism. However, I discovered that, in the end, he had to admit [You don’t say.] that only faith in God might be able save us from what he anticipated would be forced upon mindless Americans by their own stupidity--meaning their fondness for vague slogans. I am confident that Joe Biden will try and probably succeed in raising taxes on those wicked corporations. Now Economics 101 should have taught Americans that this will force American corporations to move manufacturing to places where they will not have to pay taxes. And it will also take away good paying jobs in the USA.

Once again, we’re treated to Wonder Midge astounding crowds of academics with his intellectual superiority. I guess tall tales are better than dropping a dopey TITS video, though.

- Doc

[Philo Sofee]

Doc
Once again, we’re treated to Wonder Midge astounding crowds of academics with his intellectual superiority. I guess tall tales are better than dropping a dopey TITS video, though.

It is a fascinating psychological thing to see how desperately so many Mormons wish the world to see them as intellectual and so full of knowledge and wisdom, and then Kwaku shows up and in 10 minutes of video destroys the image Mopologists have built over 50 years, and they are defending the videos!!!

[malkie]

It's fascinating how he works his own importance into the Mopologist narrative.

Oh, boy. You’ll love this one then:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... qus_thread

I must also add the following comment, which came to my mind reading some of the items in this very blog.

Year [SIC] ago I spent four or five months, on lease [SIC] as I now recall, reading everything by Frank Knight, who was the very sarcastic and brilliant founder of the Chicago School of Economics. I ended up writing a fifty [SIC] single-spaced essay on Frank Knight, which I presented to a stunned audience of perhaps fifty scholars at one of the annual meetings of the American Political Science Association. [<- Uh huh.]

I did not seek to publish this essay for several reasons. One of which is that about a third of the essay was devoted to one unpublished essay by Knight, which was never published [Redundancy Alert.], but had become famous among his best students. It was called "The Case for Communism from the Point of View of an Ex-liberal." That title was highly ironic. By liberal he meant what Americans tend to most often call "conservative," since he and his students tended to be involved in what is still called the Mont Pelerin Society, which was established in 1947 by Friedrich August von Hayek, a famous Austrian/American economist, in Switzerland, which sort of explains its name. I have attended, if I remember correctly, two of its wonderful meetings. One was at Stanford University with then Elder Oaks, after he was replaced at BYU, and before he was called as an Apostle. I am confident that Professor Peterson has also been attended [SIC] its meetings.

Frank Knight was notorious for his passionate atheism. However, I discovered that, in the end, he had to admit [You don’t say.] that only faith in God might be able save us from what he anticipated would be forced upon mindless Americans by their own stupidity--meaning their fondness for vague slogans. I am confident that Joe Biden will try and probably succeed in raising taxes on those wicked corporations. Now Economics 101 should have taught Americans that this will force American corporations to move manufacturing to places where they will not have to pay taxes. And it will also take away good paying jobs in the USA.

Once again, we’re treated to Wonder Midge astounding crowds of academics with his intellectual superiority. I guess tall tales are better than dropping a dopey TITS video, though.

- Doc

I added a [SIC] for you.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Ha. It’s irritating how the Midge points out others’ grammar and spelling errors when he himself commits so many. I’d been considering starting another Midge thread, but didn’t feel the timing was right. He also seems to be behaving better on Sic et Non, what with all the 2020 bannings.

- Doc