lds "hotline" for bishops questioned in lawsuit

[Lem]

We have discussed the lds 'hotline' for bishops before, but its failings are once again in the news.

... a lawsuit in Arizona filed against the [lds] Church earlier this month seeks to change how its abuse helpline handles reporting of child sexual abuse.

...The lawsuit states because two different bishops called the line and were told they didn't need to report the crimes, "horrific abuse" continued for the oldest victim in an Arizona family that then also included a baby girl who was born after the initial abuse of the older sibling was known by Church leaders. The rapes and sex abuse were also filmed and used to create child pornography that has circulated widely, to the point that adoptive families were told the children's "pornographic images are 'everywhere' on the dark web."

The lawsuit was specifically filed against he Corporation of the President of the Church, the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the Church, the two former Arizona bishops, a medical business one of the bishop's owned and other members of the small Bisbee, Arizona, congregation. It may name others in the area organization as well. The suit alleges they all knew of the abuse and their silence contributed to "horrible sexual, physical and emotional abuse of children between the ages of six weeks and 12 years old that went on for seven years."

Bishops in the Church are instructed to call a 24-hour abuse helpline as soon as abuse is confessed or discovered. Both of the bishops said in court documents that they were advised, after calling the hotline, that there was no need to report the abuse to authorities because discovery of the abuse were privileged confessions as clergy. The lawsuit, and the lawyer who filed it, claim that a child's safety from sex abuse, or any abuse, make it legally and morally mandatory to notify authorities.

"The law in Arizona says that anyone who has the care of a child has a duty to report. (Breaking) clergy-client confession is not against the law. It is not the state's job to enforce church policy, we have secular law when it comes to child abuse," Tucson lawyer Lynne Cadigan said. Child abuse reporting laws vary from state to state.

The abuse itself is not in dispute.

https://kutv.com/news/local/lawsuit-fil ... 12-18-2020

[Bought Yahoo]

How do you get around the privilege. In all states but one a bishop can be sued for breaching the privilege.

Don't you think the state legislatures thought of these things,?

It's like a lawyer breaching a client confidence. He can be sued. He can be enjoined. He can lose his license.

[Dr Moore]

How do you get around the privilege. In all states but one a bishop can be sued for breaching the privilege.

What are the limits on this privilege? I find it hard to believe that in 49 states, the bishop can be sued for reporting someone who confesses to murder. We aren't talking about murder here, but the point is that surely ecclesiastical privilege must already have its limits.

[Res Ipsa]

How do you get around the privilege. In all states but one a bishop can be sued for breaching the privilege.

Don't you think the state legislatures thought of these things,?

It's like a lawyer breaching a client confidence. He can be sued. He can be enjoined. He can lose his license.

Bought, I don't know the law well at all. The Bishop talked to others. Under what circumstances can the privilege be waived. Information also appeared to have been acquired through channels other than interviews with the abuser. Are those communications outside of the privilege. Also, he was the children's doctor. Does that factor in at all.

At least one of the Bishops asked the parents to wave the privilege, but they refused. Difficult and tragic case.

[Lem]

"Each of the Defendants had personal observations of the abuse, and also knew of the abuse outside of any confidential communication," the complaint, filed in Cochise County Superior Court, alleges. The father's abusive practices were discussed by church officials in routine meetings, and led to his excommunication in 2015 after church officials learned of his abuse of his daughter, then age 5.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 356979002/

I didn't realize the bishop was also the children's pediatrician. That would probably explain why he suddenly closed his practice.

[Bought Yahoo]

How do you get around the privilege. In all states but one a bishop can be sued for breaching the privilege.

What are the limits on this privilege? I find it hard to believe that in 49 states, the bishop can be sued for reporting someone who confesses to murder. We aren't talking about murder here, but the point is that surely ecclesiastical privilege must already have its limits.

Like I said. Substitute lawyer for clergyman. Do you think a lawyer should continue to practice if he breaches a confidence?

[Dr Exiled]

What are the limits on this privilege? I find it hard to believe that in 49 states, the bishop can be sued for reporting someone who confesses to murder. We aren't talking about murder here, but the point is that surely ecclesiastical privilege must already have its limits.

Like I said. Substitute lawyer for clergyman. Do you think a lawyer should continue to practice if he breaches a confidence?

Bought, what do you think ought to be the law? In my opinion, there is no benefit to having a supposed criminal "sinner" hide behind the clergy privilege. There needs to be a change in the privilege law in these types of cases, the bishops aren't stopping the bad conduct or reforming the "sinner" (the justification for having the privilege I believe)

[Lem]

Maybe this is a legal thing, but the process by which lds excommunication occurs by definition involves sharing details with multiple people. Doesn't that act violate any clergy penitent privilege? How can the lds church argue privilege remains after a public -or at least NOT private-- excommunication for child abuse occurs? Other people are told of the situation during that hearing, are each of them required to not report? What if someone called as a witness is also a mandated reporter? Wouldn't they be required to report what they hear in a public meeting?

[Dr Moore]

Like I said. Substitute lawyer for clergyman. Do you think a lawyer should continue to practice if he breaches a confidence?

This makes no sense. Why is it appropriate, or legal, to substitute a lawyer for a clergyman at all?

Lawyers are licensed and take a specific type of oath to represent their clients. Their privilege is granted by the state in order to guarantee citizens due process and fair trials.

A clergy person takes no such vow with the state, is not licensed, and guarantees parishioners no explicit duty to represent their best interests. The duty of a clergy person is therefore arbitrary at best, and at worst aligned wholly with the religious institution — hence this thread.

But again my question was simply to ask for clarification: where are the lines drawn by those 49 states when it comes to privacy privilege afforded to clergy?

[Res Ipsa]

Like I said. Substitute lawyer for clergyman. Do you think a lawyer should continue to practice if he breaches a confidence?

If he has a reasonable belief that the client will sexually abuse a kid, yeah.