lds "hotline" for bishops questioned in lawsuit

[Moksha]

How do you get around the privilege.

Does privilege extend to enabling a criminal enterprise?

[Moksha]

This is apparently an ongoing problem in Arizona (and by extension, elsewhere):

Arizona case shows why Mormon bishops are not reporting sex abuse to the police every time. That has a prosecutor complaining about the church’s lawyers.
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2 ... s-lawyers/

[IHAQ]

How do you get around the privilege. In all states but one a bishop can be sued for breaching the privilege.

What are the limits on this privilege? I find it hard to believe that in 49 states, the bishop can be sued for reporting someone who confesses to murder. We aren't talking about murder here, but the point is that surely ecclesiastical privilege must already have its limits.

Doesn’t the Bishop already breach the privilege when they decide to convene a Church Court for determining Church discipline of a member, where they then involve a number of other people in the details of the confession?

[IHAQ]

The Church has spent a lot of time and money trying to change the law on same sex marriage and religious freedom. I’m not aware of the Church spending any money trying to change the law on clergy-penitent privilege so as to better protect abuse victims. This despite spending countless millions of dollars in lawyers fees and settlements over decades. Zero tolerance for child abuse? I don’t think the Church understands what zero tolerance means, it’s simply a weighing up of the cost/benefit case every time. Lawyers and financiers run the Church now.

[Bought Yahoo]

The Church has spent a lot of time and money trying to change the law on same sex marriage and religious freedom. I’m not aware of the Church spending any money trying to change the law on clergy-penitent privilege so as to better protect abuse victims. This despite spending countless millions of dollars in lawyers fees and settlements over decades. Zero tolerance for child abuse? I don’t think the Church understands what zero tolerance means, it’s simply a weighing up of the cost/benefit case every time. Lawyers and financiers run the Church now.

The church does nothing to lobby for these laws. It is the Catholic church behind this. Under Catholic dogma, it is a mortal sin for the priest to breach the "confessional seal." I'm pretty sure the Catholics defy the law in the one state where reporting to the cops is mandatory.

The LDS Church is a mere pimple on the butt of the Catholic church's behemoth. There are more Catholics in two counties in California than there are LDS members of the Church worldwide.

[Res Ipsa]

Here is some information on the privilege. https://cdn.ymaws.com/thefederation.sit ... _Radel.pdf

In jurisdictions where the privilege belongs to the penitent, the priest cannot waive the privilege. So, LDS church discipline would not waive the privilege.

Here is a case from the Utah Supreme Court: https://law.justia.com/cases/utah/supre ... 10112.html The privilege statute in Utah applies to church discipline.

[Res Ipsa]

How do you get around the privilege.

Does privilege extend to enabling a criminal enterprise?

Yes, it can. Each state has its own law, so you have to check.

[Lem]

Question, does the visiting teacher, being female in a religion where women cannot hold the priesthood, have this privilege protection? She knew, as did many others. The lds church not only tolerated the abuse, but in this case they facilitated it for years.

Also, what happens when there is a conflict between the bishop's legal obligation tor report because he was the doctor of the children, and his volunteer position as bishop to the abuser of the children?

And didn't holding an lds court and telling many people about the abuse override the privilege already? I thought that's why mandated reporters are asked not to serve in Mormon disciplinary courts.

[Res Ipsa]

Question, does the visiting teacher, being female in a religion where women cannot hold the priesthood, have this privilege protection? She knew, as did many others. The lds church not only tolerated the abuse, but in this case they facilitated it for years.

Also, what happens when there is a conflict between the bishop's legal obligation tor report because he was the doctor of the children, and his volunteer position as bishop to the abuser of the children?

And didn't holding an lds court and telling many people about the abuse override the privilege already? I thought that's why mandated reporters are asked not to serve in Mormon disciplinary courts.

The scope of the privilege varies from state to state. However, it is doubtful it would apply to a visiting teacher.

If a doctor is a mandatory reporter and the information came from care of the child, I don't see how the priest-penitent privilege would apply. If the doctor had learned of the abuse from his medical care of the abuser, that would set up a conflict. I don't know how a court would resolve that.

Again, varies from state to state. If the privilege belongs solely to the penitent, then the clergyman can't waive it without the penitent's consent. However, I believe there are courts that have held that the privilege does not apply to what the members of the disciplinary counsel hear from the Bishop. There would be a hearsay issue with having that evidence admitted to court, but the privilege would not be a bar.

In this particular case, it almost sounds like the abuse was an open secret in the ward. I have no idea whether that will be sufficient to tag the church with liability. Just on general impression, it sounds like a case to settle.

by the way, if I were a Bishop (something I don't have to worry about), I would follow the handbook. But I would also have my own attorney I could consult with.

[Meadowchik]

Question, does the visiting teacher, being female in a religion where women cannot hold the priesthood, have this privilege protection? She knew, as did many others. The lds church not only tolerated the abuse, but in this case they facilitated it for years.

Also, what happens when there is a conflict between the bishop's legal obligation tor report because he was the doctor of the children, and his volunteer position as bishop to the abuser of the children?

And didn't holding an lds court and telling many people about the abuse override the privilege already? I thought that's why mandated reporters are asked not to serve in Mormon disciplinary courts.

Can the penitent reasonably expect that a visiting teacher be included in the collective bubble of privacy with the priest? Can the visiting teacher be reasonably expected to understand the private nature of the confessional disclosures from the bishop?

The above, however it is, says nothing about what the visiting teacher learns from personal contact. She is nowise a priest in the church; there is no concept of confessional via a visiting teacher.