Shout Out to Shulem!

[Lem]

Hey Shulem! In the papyrus gluing, what is that drawn and shaded in oval-shaped thing at the very top, just touching the top guide line, just to the right and above of the original drawn in tilted head outline?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Based on this, looking at the location where the arms are drawn in to connect to the hands suggests you are right.

Speaking of arms, this is honestly the first time I noticed that Abraham’s lower arms are depicted as the radius and ulna, and if I’m not mistaken it appears the upper arms are drawn as the humerus. Has there been any discussion anywhere that the JSP 1 was originally interpreted as such that the ‘person’ was considered dead already? Something is definitely going on there with the arms being depicted as bones.

- Doc

[Jersey Girl]

Link me to where we're supposed to pick up the conversation, Shulem. The thread is 5 pages long. Do I need to start at the beginning? Please say, no.

[Jersey Girl]

I jumped in at page 4 to read. What am I supposed to comment on? Are you still looking for is the glue under or over the sketched in head?

[Shulem]

honorentheos, Lem, Doctor CamNC4Me, Jersey Girl, and . . . . . . , thank you for taking a little of your time and weighing in on this thread and coming to my rescue. I've been in a tunnel of frustration trying to make sense of something that I can't quite see and wrap my brain around. If only I had a higher resolution of the photo, it would be easier to make a determination or, better yet, if only LDS scholars at BYU were more interested in revealing the truth and uncovering uncomfortable facts about the Book of Abraham. Perhaps Brian Hauglid (bless his heart), one of the few honest scholars on the Church payroll knows the answer? RFM could reach out to him on that??

Yes, it's all about the sketch of Abraham and the priest's head on the paper backing. I assume it's graphite that was used to make that sketch. It's important for me to know whether the paper was thoroughly coated with a generally thin coating of glue wherein the papyrus was plopped on and permanently set. Was the sketching drawn BEFORE the glue or AFTER? That's an important question and a clue.

I will weigh what has been said and hopefully others will chime in. I'm sure RFM will want to comment, eventually, but he has his plate full with his job and making podcasts. We are lucky to have him here for even a minute, I suppose.

And thank you, Doctor CamNC4Me for showing up and your comments are useful. Continue, if you will, to look at the artifact and see if you can make further determination of the relationship of the graphite and the glue. Which came first?

Lem, that oval-shaped thing has ever been an anomaly and I've never been able to determine exactly what it is. You'll note that the graphite used to make that shape is more purely rubbed into the fibers of the paper as if it was able to make better contact. Is that because there is a lack of glue sheened over that portion of paper prior to setting the papyrus fragment? I've contemplated that. My best guess at this point is that it's simply a test patch for the graphite instrument to perhaps sharpen the point and *p r e p* it for sketching -- but that's speculation on my part.

If you guys (and girls) can think of anything else, do let me know. Perhaps someone has a big monitor or screen wherein they can enlarge the image and get a better view? I've always been under the impression that the sketching made direct contact with the paper and was not run over glue surface whereon there could have been prior pieces of key fragments (now lost). I always assumed that the paper was not entirely run over with glue like a wet sheen to coat the entire surface but that only a little glue was dribbled about to tack the papyrus down to the paper. Which was it? Was glue run over the entire surface with a cloth or something? Where the hell is Philo? He's the arts and crafty guy around here.

lol

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Shulem,

I'll take another look in a bit, but before I do it might be helpful to do a tl-dr summary of why this is important - the glue thing.

- Doc

[Shulem]

Kerry Muhlestein and others have studied this matter, apparently, more so than I assumed. I'm not familiar with their findings. The only thing I know about Kerry Muhlestein is that he's a bullshitter and one not to be trusted, so I pay him little mind. Perhaps his findings shed light on this subject that is worth looking into. My bad? Do I have to read Kerry's crap? The thought makes me want to vomit. I just can't. Ugh.

Doctor CamNC4Me, the bony arms you mention bring up one important FACT; the person who drew them is no artist. A real artist wouldn't make arms like that. The sketching of Abraham and the priest's head are revelations given to the Church in restoring the Book of Abraham. Such knowledge could only come from Joseph Smith -- the TRANSLATOR who was the only qualified person that could reveal such things to the entire Church. I've always believed that the sketching was the work of Joseph Smith, respectively. He owned the papyrus, managed them, and kept them locked up in his presidential office.

It's important to timeline when the sketch could have been drawn and tie that with what eyewitnesses have said about the fragment and whether it was the sole representation of what was seen as it related to the actual fragment. I suspect these things add to the discussion in putting the puzzle together. We need the FACTS.

Muhlestein wants his believers to think it's possible that key fragments are missing, fragments that would prove Joseph Smith was right about his interpretation in filling in the lucana. I think that's BS. That's what's got me so pissed off right now. Muhlestein is a sly little trickster.

Preserving the Joseph Smith Papyri Fragments:
What Can We Learn from the Paper on Which the
Papyri Were Mounted?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

So. Taking a hard look at it I’m inclined to say the versos was something that already had those straight lines (plat lines?) that was repurposed as a backing for the papyrus that was glued onto it. It appears that the penciling in of the body, arms, and priest was post hoc. The drawing clearly was done over the lines, and upon scrutinizing it on full magnification I’d say it was done over any gluing.

- Doc

[Shulem]

So. Taking a hard look at it I’m inclined to say the versos was something that already had those straight lines (plat lines?) that was repurposed as a backing for the papyrus that was glued onto it. It appears that the penciling in of the body, arms, and priest was post hoc. The drawing clearly was done over the lines, and upon scrutinizing it on full magnification I’d say it was done over any gluing.

- Doc

The straight lines and the sketching are two different animals and appear to be made with different graphite media. So what you're saying, if I understand you correctly, the sketches of the priest's head and Abraham, including his arms and breeches, were drawn over dried glue? The penciling of Abraham is OVER dried glue? Is that what you see?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Yes. The secondary penciling appears, to me, to be over the glue and over the straight lines, which I’m guessing were there before the papyrus was glued onto the paper.