Utah figures to receive what one economist calls a “stunning” amount of money from the $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief package Congress passed Wednesday, even as the state’s representatives in Washington argued that the state doesn’t need much of what is coming its way.
The massive American Rescue Plan will direct an estimated $7 billion to $8 billion to Utah, said Phil Dean, public finance senior research fellow at the University of Utah’s Kem C. Gardner Policy Institute.
<snip>
The biggest chunk of the money headed to Utah will be in $1,400 direct payments to residents, which Dean estimates will reach about 85% of the state’s households totaling $3.8 billion.
“I definitely think it will be stimulative to the economy. Part of my question is where are people going to actually spend that. How much is that being spent in state and out of state,” he said during a panel discussion the Gardner Institute hosted Wednesday.
Every tithe paying Utahn will be giving 10% of those direct payments to the Church. So will every tithe paying Member across America.
Will the Church inform members not to pay tithe on it? Or will it guzzle up the hundreds of millions of dollars extra tithing and hoard it all away for a rainy day, whilst encouraging cash-strapped members to pay even more than an honest tithe so they can publish PR pieces about giving money away without having to touch the hoard?
It reminds me of a number of discussions in the past about whether a person should pay 10% of gross or net income. The official stance is it up to the members, but the church likes to tell many stories about it to remind members to pay tithing, even if you cannot pay any other of your debts. I don't recall any leaders ever suggesting they paid net, but I seem to remember many telling spiritual stories of paying gross. In fact it is part of LDS culture to pay gross. Most members know most think it should be gross. I suspect the leadership also understands the psychology going on. If one is considering which they should do they are usually caught up with thoughts about what if God wants me to pay gross and I pay net. Will I be damned. If I pay gross I don't have these worries. Same kind of thinking will prevail with this stimulus checks. Members will wonder if they don't pay 10% on it, God may be displeased and they may be punished or not receive rewards from on high. Remember if you don't really know, don't take the chance. Classic manipulation while pretending to take no sides.
Here is Dallin H. Oaks giving an example where he coerced tithing from members by threatening them.
Some time ago I was speaking to a meeting of Church leaders in a country outside of North America. As I spoke about tithing, I found myself saying something I had not intended to say. I told them the Lord was grieved that only a small fraction of the members in their nations relied on the Lord’s promises and paid a full tithing. I warned that the Lord would withhold material and spiritual blessings when his covenant children were not keeping this vital commandment.
The Church expects members to pay 10% of their Covid Relief money to the hoard. The implicit threat issued by Oaks is the religious equivalent of a protection racket - "Don't want something bad to happen to your material blessings? Pay us 10% and we'll take care of it."
Interestingly, people who aren't Mormons and who don't pay 10% of their income into a secret financial stash thinking it's going to charitable causes, seem to do as well for blessings as those poor Mormon's who do. Go figure.
Here is Dallin H. Oaks giving an example where he coerced tithing from members by threatening them.
Some time ago I was speaking to a meeting of Church leaders in a country outside of North America. As I spoke about tithing, I found myself saying something I had not intended to say. I told them the Lord was grieved that only a small fraction of the members in their nations relied on the Lord’s promises and paid a full tithing. I warned that the Lord would withhold material and spiritual blessings when his covenant children were not keeping this vital commandment.
The Church expects members to pay 10% of their Covid Relief money to the hoard. The implicit threat issued by Oaks is the religious equivalent of a protection racket - "Don't want something bad to happen to your material blessings? Pay us 10% and we'll take care of it."
Interestingly, people who aren't Mormons and who don't pay 10% of their income into a secret financial stash thinking it's going to charitable causes, seem to do as well for blessings as those poor Mormon's who do. Go figure.
That’s a sweeping generalization. Also, you are not privy to the quiet but real blessings that come to the faithful. The ways of God are but foolishness to man. You’ve just expressed that sentiment.
And no, I don’t think the church ‘expects’ one thing or the other in regards to what we do with the stimulus. In fact, I would think that ‘the church’ is not too keen on taking government money through the skimming of tithing while we are running up a national debt leading to catastrophe. Philosophically that just doesn’t cut it. You make it sound as though the primary concern of the church is raking in money at all costs...by hook or by crook.
And no, I don’t think the church ‘expects’ one thing or the other in regards to what we do with the stimulus. In fact, I would think that ‘the church’ is not too keen on taking government money through the skimming of tithing while we are running up a national debt leading to catastrophe. Philosophically that just doesn’t cut it. You make it sound as though the primary concern of the church is raking in money at all costs...by hook or by crook.
I don’t think that’s the way things work.
Regards,
MG
The United States has been in debt since its inception, so if the national debt were "leading to catastrophe" it sure is taking its sweet time--240 years and counting!
The last time the U.S. was even close to being out of debt was January 1835. But go on...
I guess if we're all worried about the debt, we should start closing tax loopholes, like tax exemptions for churches--that would raise at least $85 billion a year. We could pay for that massive Trump tax cut in 20 years just by taxing non-religious and religious corporations equally.
Think the Corporation of the President would go for it?
That’s a sweeping generalization. Also, you are not privy to the quiet but real blessings that come to the faithful. The ways of God are but foolishness to man. You’ve just expressed that sentiment.
And no, I don’t think the church ‘expects’ one thing or the other in regards to what we do with the stimulus. In fact, I would think that ‘the church’ is not too keen on taking government money through the skimming of tithing while we are running up a national debt leading to catastrophe. Philosophically that just doesn’t cut it. You make it sound as though the primary concern of the church is raking in money at all costs...by hook or by crook.
I don’t think that’s the way things work.
Regards,
MG
If a members get a blessing for paying tithing does that mean others who don't pay tithing not get blessings? How blessed are members compared to everyone else?
IHAQ has a point in that the Church will likely get far more money from relief than they ever gave for relief on COVID. One must wonder if that factored into their business decision to donate.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
IHAQ has a point in that the Church will likely get far more money from relief than they ever gave for relief on COVID. One must wonder if that factored into their business decision to donate.
From the article in the OP...
The biggest chunk of the money headed to Utah will be in $1,400 direct payments to residents, which Dean estimates will reach about 85% of the state’s households totalling $3.8 billion.
Just as a rough estimate - if half of the state of is Mormon, and only half of those Mormons pay an honest tithe, the Church will rake in $190,000,000 just from Utah.
The ways of God are but foolishness to man. You’ve just expressed that sentiment.
That's what the religious conman uses to explain what they say about God not making any sense.
You make it sound as though the primary concern of the church is raking in money at all costs
It's history does suggest it is one of it's primary concerns. The church has always fought hard on anything that would decrease the amount of money they make, like any threats to being tax exempt.
And no, I don’t think the church ‘expects’ one thing or the other in regards to what we do with the stimulus.
They will stay silent knowing the psychology will get most active member's to send them 10% of the checks they from the government. Will you be paying gross or net?