DiscussMormonism.com

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:40 pm**

We’re coming upon another anniversary of the restoration of Christ’s church. It may be appropriate to quote the lyrics of a popular LDS Hymn.

1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
[Chorus]
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.
3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.
4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.

I’ve been thinking recently about the amount of time that critics of the Prophet Joseph Smith have spent besmirching him and the work which he performed to bring about the restoration of the gospel. And yet the work moves on.

Believers reverence the Prophet and his successors as being the mouthpieces of the Lord in our day. There are many who would defame Joseph Smith and the prophets and the work which has come about through their instrumentality. The restoration of all things foretold by the prophets. The Dispensation of the Fullness of Times.

It’s time for me to take another extended break from this board. I know we disagree on just about everything having to do with the LDS Church, etc., but nonetheless, thanks for the conversations/discussions and may good health and happiness be your lot in life.

Regards and take care,
MG

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:12 pm**

From nothing, the church, like a stone cut without hands, grew to a multi-billion dollar company! I wish there would have been a way to invest in the church like so many other companies on wall street. I bet the returns would have been glorious starting in the 1980's going forward. Duping the credulous into willingly overpaying for the real estate the church pumps out is a wonderful con to behold. I can't wait for it to hit the $Trillion mark.

Praise to the man indeed.

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:35 pm**

Take care of yourself, MG. And walk in beauty.

In beauty I walk
With beauty before me I walk
With beauty behind me I walk
With beauty above me I walk
With beauty around me I walk
It has become beauty again

Hózhóogo naasháa doo Shitsijí’ hózhóogo naasháa doo Shikéédéé hózhóogo naasháa doo Shideigi hózhóogo naasháa doo T’áá altso shinaagóó hózhóogo naasháa doo Hózhó náhásdlíí’ Hózhó náhásdlíí’ Hózhó náhásdlíí’ Hózhó náhásdlíí’

Today I will walk out, today everything negative will leave me
I will be as I was before, I will have a cool breeze over my body.
I will have a light body, I will be happy forever, nothing will hinder me.
I walk with beauty before me. I walk with beauty behind me.
I walk with beauty below me. I walk with beauty above me.
I walk with beauty around me. My words will be beautiful.

In beauty all day long may I walk.
Through the returning seasons, may I walk.
On the trail marked with pollen may I walk.
With dew about my feet, may I walk.
With beauty before me may I walk.
With beauty behind me may I walk.
With beauty below me may I walk.
With beauty above me may I walk.
With beauty all around me may I walk.
In old age wandering on a trail of beauty, lively, may I walk.
In old age wandering on a trail of beauty, living again, may I walk.

My words will be beautiful…

Closing prayer of the Navajo Way blessing.

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:50 pm**

What's the King's name in Facsimile No. 3?

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:15 pm**

Best wishes with your break, and happily agree to disagree with your parting assertion.

While efforts to redefine success might be working with some folks, these pivots are pretty transparent. "The work rolls forward" isn't a tenable position when so much energy goes toward damage control and defensive pearl clutching.

Even my most believing family members find it chuckle-worthy that growth no longer means membership growth, but rather book printings and counting the number of countries where Russell Nelson has flown in to bear his testimony.

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:28 pm**

mentalgymnast wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:40 pm
We’re coming upon another anniversary of the restoration of Christ’s church. It may be appropriate to quote the lyrics of a popular LDS Hymn.

1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
[Chorus]
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.
3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.
4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.
I’ve thought recently about the amount of time and effort that detractors of the Prophet Joseph Smith have put into besmirching his name. And that despite this, work moves on.

Believers reverence the Prophet and his successors as being the mouthpieces of the Lord in our day. There are many who would defame Joseph Smith and the prophets and the work which has come about through their instrumentality. The restoration of all things foretold by the prophets. The Dispensation of the Fullness of Times.

It’s time for me to take another extended break from this board. I know we disagree on just about everything having to do with the LDS Church, etc., but nonetheless, thanks for the conversations/discussions and may good health and happiness be your lot in life.

Regards and take care,
MG

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:41 am**

Brother Brigham’s appropriation of Brother Joseph’s work does indeed roll on. There have been no Mormon prophets since Joseph was assassinated.

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:48 pm**

I can actually remember a time when Praise to the Man stirred positive emotions for me. I then remember vague misgivings.

Now reviewing the words for the first time in decades I find myself shocked by the outlandish over the top shouting.

Posted: **Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:00 am**

huckelberry wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:48 pm
I can actually remember a time when Praise to the Man stirred positive emotions for me. I then remember vague misgivings.

Now reviewing the words for the first time in decades I find myself shocked by the outlandish over the top shouting.

Indeed, it's difficult NOT to think of those lyrics when it's probably the one tune that every bag-pipe player on the planet first learns to play: Scotland the Brave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqeYKf8tdsU

Scotland the Brave

Hark when the night is falling
Hear! hear the pipes are calling
Loudly and proudly calling
Down through the glen
There where the hills are sleeping
Now feel the blood a-leaping
High as the spirits
Of the old Highland men
Towering in gallant fame
Scotland my mountain hame
High may your proud standards, Gloriously wave
Land of my high endeavour
Land of the shining rivers
Land of my heart for ever
Scotland the brave
High in the misty Highlands
Out by the purple islands
Brave are the hearts that beat
Beneath Scottish skies
Wild are the winds to meet you
Staunch are the friends that greet you
Kind as the love that shines
From fair maidens' eyes
Far off in sunlit places
Sad are the Scottish faces
Yearning to feel the kiss
Of sweet Scottish rain
Where tropic skies are beaming
Love sets the heart a-dreaming
Longing and dreaming for the homeland again

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:33 pm**

Kishkumen wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:41 am
Brother Brigham’s appropriation of Brother Joseph’s work does indeed roll on. There have been no Mormon prophets since Joseph was assassinated.

I believe that you are right. I think that "Assassination" is probably a more forensically correct term than "Martyrdom". Were I, a nobody, to meet a similar demise, then it could be said that I was "murdered". But one must be regarded as something of a public "mover and a shaker" to earn the right to be "assassinated".

My problem with the martyrdom scenario was Joseph's use of that damn gun. Even though I grew up LDS and was "native here and to the manner born", the gun always seemed to be incongruent with the whole "I go like a lamb to the slaughter, but I am calm as a morning lake" scenario.

But now, thanks to the Joseph Smith Papers Project we have the handwritten drafts of the first official account of Joseph Smith's Martyrdom recorded in 1856 under the supervision of George A. Smith, https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... New Testament-draft/1. It is fascinating reading. It is interesting to see all the raw, seemingly contradictory original material from which the historians tried to hammer out a plausible martyrdom narrative. The photos of the original manuscripts are riddled from beginning to end with strikeouts (sometimes including whole paragraphs and even pages) as well as insertions. And these were *definitely* not just grammar or diction issues.

Now take the issue of the gun. What was written (but apparently not included in the final draft) is that there were two guns involved and that Joseph had acquired a single shooter previously to Cyrus Wheelock's visit to the jail, which he then gave to his brother Hyrum.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/historians-office-martyrdom-account-draft/16 wrote: After receiving these assurances <he> prepared to visit the prison, the morning being a little rainy, favored his wearing an overcoat, in the side pocket of which he was enabled to carry a revolver six shooter, he passed the guard unmolested— during his visit in the prison he slipped the Revolver into Josephs pocket unobserved by any other individual Joseph examined it & asked Wheelock if he had not better retain it for his own protection it was a providential circumstance getting the pistol into the prison as every other person who had previously entered, had been very rigidly searched. Joseph then handed a single barrel pistol (which had been given him by John S. Fullmer who passed the guard with it concealed in the top of his boots) to his brother Hyrum and said “you may have use for this” Brother Hyrum observed “I hate to use such things or to see them used”— “So do I” said Joseph “but we may want to help the guard defend the prison” upon this Hyrum took the pistol.

Also, before going to Carthage Joseph had a rather curious conversation with Emma, pleading with her to come with him.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/historians-office-martyrdom-account-draft/6 wrote:Joseph rode down home <twice> to bid his family farewell. He appeared solemn and thoughtful, and expressed himself to several individuals that he expected to be murdered. There appeared no alternative, but that he must either give himself up, or the inhabitants of the City would be massacred by a lawless mob under the sanction of the Governor. <He urged upon Emma to go with him which she refused; he repeatedly and vehemently urged it upon her but she pointedly refused alledging that she would have the ague. He even wished her to run the risk of the ague but she persisted in her refusal. He then said “well if they don’t hang me I don’t care how they kick me

In the "Lamb to the slaughter" scenario, why would Joseph ask his wife to come with him to join in on the festivities at Carthage?

There are so many odd curiosities about the events leading to Joseph's death in this account that it would take too long to provide a source for each one. So, I will summarise. From this account, it is obvious that Joseph was working overtime to use every possible legal maneuver he could to keep from being assassinated. (One could be charitable and say that he possessed the cardinal virtue of prudence in this matter. After all, going like a lamb to the slaughter does not necessarily preclude that one should not try to make good use of one's time in the interim).

And from this account, it is also perfectly clear that the destruction of The Nauvoo Expositor was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. And we learn that although Joseph justified the Nauvoo City Council's ordinance as perfectly legal, while on the way (or in) Carthage, Joseph *did* send off a quick note to some government official or other to say that, of course, the Church offers to financially reimburse the Law Brothers for their inconvenience and loss of property.

We also are informed of a somewhat humorous (to me, anyway) conversation between Joseph and Hyrum in the Carthage jail where they were discussing the merits and demerits of potential witnesses for their defense in the upcoming trial (ie, Brother So-and-so doesn't know anything, Brother What's-his-name talks too much, Brother Milqtoast would probably crack under pressure, etc.)

Joseph also sent a Brother Dan Jones to have a chit-chat with Governer Ford (where it is related that Dan Jones informed the governor that both Joseph and Hyrum were Master Masons and that the governor might want to keep that fact in mind if he intends to engage in any funny business).

There is a ton of other interesting stuff in this account that I had never heard of before but I will close for now.

This is my speculation, for what it's worth: Joseph wanted Emma to go with him to Carthage as his One Wife and a human shield to put the kibosh on the spiritual "bimbo eruptions" described in the Nauvoo Expositor. Also, since this account states that Joseph said that he was going "like a lamb to the slaughter" a number of times to a number of different groups of people (including to some of the soldiers in the Nauvoo Legion), I believe that he was actually dog-whistling for an intervention in the ironic hope that this prophecy would go unfulfilled.

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