Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
I keep forgetting to thank you Gabriel for taking one for the team and getting this book.
It's been pretty fascinating thus far. The notes on the near plane crash (cough) match up with the first accounts, although as I somewhat suspected, it doesn't flesh it out much.
The rafting episode is pretty damning. That one of his kids also fell out (it wasn't all about him) was a calculated omission. Plus, it's not really consistent with pulling over for a family huddle and lesson on symbolism.
It's been pretty fascinating thus far. The notes on the near plane crash (cough) match up with the first accounts, although as I somewhat suspected, it doesn't flesh it out much.
The rafting episode is pretty damning. That one of his kids also fell out (it wasn't all about him) was a calculated omission. Plus, it's not really consistent with pulling over for a family huddle and lesson on symbolism.
Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
One more expression of thanks to you, Gabriel. The quote in the book you found makes a nice baseline from which to determine the amount of embellishment Russell M. Nelson added to the story over the years.
More significantly, it makes absolutely clear that Nelson had his own initial written description of the event to refer to and takes away any excuse of "aging memory" as a reason for his gross misrepresentation of the facts.
Failure to at least try to make his faith-promoting tall tale consistent with his earlier account also reflects a level of disrespect, or even disdain, for his audience (as in a Trumpian, "They will believe anything I tell them!" approach in attempting to create an alternate reality.)
There could hardly be a better example of one being hoisted with one's own petard.
More significantly, it makes absolutely clear that Nelson had his own initial written description of the event to refer to and takes away any excuse of "aging memory" as a reason for his gross misrepresentation of the facts.
Failure to at least try to make his faith-promoting tall tale consistent with his earlier account also reflects a level of disrespect, or even disdain, for his audience (as in a Trumpian, "They will believe anything I tell them!" approach in attempting to create an alternate reality.)
There could hardly be a better example of one being hoisted with one's own petard.
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous." (David Hume)
"Errors in science are learning opportunities and are corrected when better data become available." (DrW)
"Errors in science are learning opportunities and are corrected when better data become available." (DrW)
Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
I'd like to remind current Prophet Russell M. Nelson of the following Gospel Principle...
Are you a narcissist Russell?
I'm surprised that with such clear evidence that the current leader of the LDS Church has been lying to people for nearly 50 years, no serious journalist has taken up the story and publicly challenged the Church/Nelson to provide clarification on the matter. A lot of money has been received on the back of exhortations from the likes of Nelson. What else is he lying about?
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... y?lang=engLying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying. The Lord gave this commandment to the children of Israel: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” (Exodus 20:16). Jesus also taught this when He was on earth (see Matthew 19:18). There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.
The Lord is not pleased with such dishonesty, and we will have to account for our lies. Satan would have us believe it is all right to lie. He says, “Yea, lie a little; … there is no harm in this” (2 Nephi 28:8). Satan encourages us to justify our lies to ourselves. Honest people will recognize Satan’s temptations and will speak the whole truth, even if it seems to be to their disadvantage.
Are you a narcissist Russell?
I'm surprised that with such clear evidence that the current leader of the LDS Church has been lying to people for nearly 50 years, no serious journalist has taken up the story and publicly challenged the Church/Nelson to provide clarification on the matter. A lot of money has been received on the back of exhortations from the likes of Nelson. What else is he lying about?
Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
This would have been in the summer of 1951, Russell left for Korea in June to inspect the U.S. MASH units. He returned back to DC sometime before December.
Russell claims to have spent the night in a foxhole during an air raid. He is sketchy on the details and doesn't mention where this event occurred. If need be, I will post his account on a separate thread by the end of the week. I don't have time to type it up at the moment. However, here is a photo of the pages:
I have a little bit of a "Six Degrees of Separation" with Russell in this matter. The book that I purchased was inscribed to a "Bishop L. Blaine Liljenquist and family" in the front cover. Russell was called to be his second counselor in the bishopric in December of '51.
It reads as follows:
The book that I purchased has no markings in it, and it appears to have been either unread or if so, very carefully handled. I am not sure if this copy actually made it to its intended recipient.Dantzel and Russell Nelson wrote: To Bishop L. Blaine Liljenquist and family, with our deepest admiration and affection and everlasting gratitude.
Love,
Dantzel and Russell
December 1979
Note: I had to drastically compress the file size of the photos in order to post them on this thread. I apologize for the blurriness.
Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
The pleasure is all mine. Thank You!
You are correct: There's no loose change on the floor. However, we do have Russell's written admission that he has kept journals (at least since his college days).
I agree. Here is the table of contents for Russell's book: It is the chapters dealing with the children which bother me the most. I don't mean to put this out as a tease, but in this matter, where value judgments as to his character are concerned, I would rather let Russell do most of the talking. I will definitely explore this on another thread as soon as I can.
Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
My pleasure, Good Doctor W!DrW wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:19 pmOne more expression of thanks to you, Gabriel. The quote in the book you found makes a nice baseline from which to determine the amount of embellishment Russell M. Nelson added to the story over the years.
More significantly, it makes absolutely clear that Nelson had his own initial written description of the event to refer to and takes away any excuse of "aging memory" as a reason for his gross misrepresentation of the facts.
Failure to at least try to make his faith-promoting tall tale consistent with his earlier account also reflects a level of disrespect, or even disdain, for his audience (as in a Trumpian, "They will believe anything I tell them!" approach in attempting to create an alternate reality.)
There could hardly be a better example of one being hoisted with one's own petard.
It might interest you to know that Russell had his own Professor Moriarty figure (whom he refers to mysteriously as "Dr. W"):
Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
There's an interesting passage in Russell's autobiography where he compares himself to the prophet Abraham. I will post it Friday. In fact, I think I will post a new thread each Friday. Not forever. I think that I will just limit myself to a few articles. I don't know. 23 seems like a nice round number.
- Morley
- God
- Posts: 1560
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:17 pm
- Location: detail from Alice Neel's 1980 self portrait
Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
Indeed it does.Gabriel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:24 amThere's an interesting passage in Russell's autobiography where he compares himself to the prophet Abraham. I will post it Friday. In fact, I think I will post a new thread each Friday. Not forever. I think that I will just limit myself to a few articles. I don't know. 23 seems like a nice round number.
I'm very much looking forward to the serialization. Let me add my tub of gratitude to the thank you feast.
.
- Dr Moore
- Endowed Chair of Historical Innovation
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:16 pm
- Location: Cassius University
Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
I notice two things from what seems to be Nelson's primary journal entry on the event.Gabriel wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:36 pmFrom the bottom of page 376 to the top of 377, we get the money quote:Russell M. Nelson wrote: November 12 - Flew to St. George. When one of the small airplane's engines exploded, I expected to be killed. But after a precipitous dive in the disabled plane, the pilot made a safe emergency landing in Delta. I was going to St. George to give the opening prayer at the inaugural services at which Rolfe Kerr became president of Dixie College.
1) Nelson dates the entry on Nov. 12. The flight was Nov. 11. Maybe he journaled in the morning on Nov. 12?
2) He expected to be killed "when" one of the engines exploded. In other words, it wasn't the spiral dive that scared him of dying, as in later accounts. He was thinking about that from the moment of engine failure.
Re: Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience
I’ll have to find my source, but If I recall correctly the inauguration event occurred in the afternoon at 2 pm. It would make sense that a flight the day before might be necessary in order to be there for an early afternoon event.Dr Moore wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:36 pmI notice two things from what seems to be Nelson's primary journal entry on the event.
1) Nelson dates the entry on Nov. 12. The flight was Nov. 11. Maybe he journaled in the morning on Nov. 12?
2) He expected to be killed "when" one of the engines exploded. In other words, it wasn't the spiral dive that scared him of dying, as in later accounts. He was thinking about that from the moment of engine failure.