Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience

[Res Ipsa]

It looks like he starts talking about an engine failure, then switches to an engine fire. I’ll bet DrW can tell us if the procedures are the same.

[Dr Moore]

That MDD pilot asserts that every version of this engine failure results in a dramatic fire and an emergency dive and emergency landing. That basically everything Nelson says was a by the book expected emergency event and action.

But the CAB report states very clearly that landing in Delta was precautionary, and that was by the book, and that the plane could have very well gone on to its destination. Emergency situation is not at all part of the CAB narrative. This is nothing at all like the MDD pilot’s version of things. It doesn’t add up with other facts.

But ok we have 1 pilot saying Nelson’s version is exactly what would be expected. And something like 7-10 pilots on various forums offering specific reasons why not.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

The engine is shut off. The plane yaws a bit. Pilot compensates gently. You land at an airport at your leisure. The pilot at MDDB is lying for the Lard. Period.

- Doc

[DrW]

Yesterday, I had a look at the thread Moksha referenced over on the other site, which had expanded to 7 pages, and made a few notes for a possible comment. Fair Dinkum was being attacked for asking reasonable questions about the Russell M. Nelson story. Helix opined that both the Nelson and CAB versions could be true, suggesting that the following main points are compatible with both versions:

Have enjoyed your posts on this thread. Any thoughts on this one:

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/73 ... 1210044711

I am a pilot and flight instructor with 35 years experience. The Piper PA-31 Navajo is a small twin-engine airplane that carries 6 to 8 people including the pilot. The interior is about the size of a small mini-van. Everyone can see the pilot up front and both engines out the windows. The engines are piston engines, not jets.

One engine experienced a cylinder failure. On an air-cooled engine, the cylinders are individual assemblies attached to the crank case (very different from a car engine, where everything is buried inside the engine block). If one fails, it can be quite spectacular as the burning fuel/air mixture escapes and the now-unbalanced engine begins shaking violently.

Standard procedure:

1) Shut down the bad engine and feather the propeller (turn the blades into the wind to minimize drag). This causes the propeller to stop spinning. The fuel would also be shut off so as to not feed the fire.

2) Descend as quickly as possible to land, even if not at an airport. Better to land in a field than to burn up in the air. The emergency descent involves pulling the throttle on the good engine back to idle (it is NOT shut down), banking the airplane, and pushing the nose down to get as much airspeed as possible. This creates a spiraling descent. (Descending rapidly in a straight line "unloads" the wings, which could cause severe airframe damage if the wings were suddenly "loaded" by turbulence.) This rapid descent also has the benefit of possibly "blowing out" the fire (much like blowing out a candle).

3) Near the ground, roll out of the dive, level out, let the airplane slow down, and bring the power back up on the good engine to keep the airplane flying. If still burning, land wherever possible and evacuate. If the fire is out, proceed to the nearest airport or suitable landing site.

The passengers were never about to die, and there was no miracle recovery from the dive. The pilot knew the outcome from the start. Every multiengine pilot is trained to do this. It's published in countless manuals and training materials. I teach this to my multiengine students frequently. The "emergency descent" is a wild ride as the view out the front window looks like you're pointing straight towards the ground (really only about 30* nose down) and the airspeed shoots up into the "yellow arc" on the airspeed indicator (the "caution zone").

Hello Warbreaker,

Thanks for the question. Most of my multi engine time in a Piper twin was in an Apache and I have substantial time as well as in several other more capable aircraft including a Beech Queen Air owned by my company. I am a commercial pilot with multi-engine and instrument ratings.

My first response is that there is no reason to doubt what the flight instructor says about currently recommended emergency procedures for an engine fire in a Navajo. However, when I was active in the 1970's the recommendation for handling an engine fire that persisted after securing the affected engine including shutting off the fuel and feathering the prop, was a straight line or turning descent toward the intended landing site, not to exceed Vne.

The Piper operator manuals I have used and seen say nothing about an emergency spiral decent in the case of a persistent engine fire. I checked again today. If there is such a written standard procedure nowadays for a Navajo, I would be interested in seeing it.

I also note that in the only case of an inflight engine fire incident in the NTSB reports we found involving a Piper Navajo Chieftain when researching this, the pilot secured the affected engine according to the checklist, including shutting off the fuel and feathering the prop. He then elected to let the fire burn until he reached his destination at which point he put the fire out with a portable fire extinguisher. You can find the report of this inflight engine fire incident upthread, where you can also find a photograph showing the result of landing a perfectly airworthy Piper Navajo in a farmer's field.

However, all of this is irrelevant to the issue of whether or not Russell M. Nelson was fabricating his Doors of Death story. As mentioned in an earlier post today, the CAB letter makes it clear that there was no engine fire that day on Russell M. Nelson's aircraft, and that the aircraft was capable of safely continuing on to St. George or returning to SLC. The landing at Delta Municipal was a precautionary landing, not an emergency landing, and it was on an airport runway not in a farmer's field.

[warbreaker]

@all. Figured. Thanks for weighing in!

[Moksha]

Fair Dinkum's initial post discussed three separate instances of President Nelson embellishing his stories. Were these stories all denied on the MD&D board or has the majority of denials gone to plane story?

The use of spiritual eyes or spiritual imagination seems like a workable defense that is not being utilized sufficiently by these Church supporters.

[DrW]

@all. Figured. Thanks for weighing in!

Here is a link to the generally recommended procedure for emergency descent in a pressurized multi-engine aircraft such as the Piper Navajo Chieftain PA31 350. It says nothing about a spiral dive.

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Eme ... ight_Crews

Again, I have no reason to doubt what "cfi "(certified flight instructor) wrote on the other board in 2021. Looking into this further, there is now a general emergency descent procedure similar to what cfi described that appears to be recommended for single engine aircraft. So there's that.

In a single engine aircraft, an engine fire means that it is unlikely one would be able to do more than glide if the fire were to extinguish, so the best option is to get to the ground and land as quickly as possible. If the engine fire extinguishes in a twin, or even if it does not in some cases, there is still the option to continue flying as the Navajo pilot did in the NTSB engine fire report posted upthread.

In the case of an engine fire in a twin, the main objective of an emergency descent is to increase airspeed over the air cooled engine in an attempt to extinguish the fire, not necessarily to land as soon as possible. (If the twin is pressurized, and pressurization is lost, then it is also a priority to reduce altitude to below 10,000 feet above mean sea level as soon as safely possible).

This kind of tight spiral dive emergency descent was never taught or practiced during any of my flight training, up to and including commercial pilot. None of my instructors or pilot friends and colleagues ever mentioned it. The several instructors who rented my first airplane for giving flight instruction to others never taught or even mentioned it.

What I will say is that if someone had proposed practicing an engine-out, prop feathered, tight spiral "wild ride" emergency dive with the nose 30 degrees down and the airspeed indicator in the yellow in our company Queen Air in 1976, that individual would not have been allowed anywhere near the aircraft.

[Most High]

You heathens,

Instead of fact checking the faithpromoting words of the Lords true and living prophet on the earth today, you should humbly fall on your knees and ask the God of the heavens in mighty prayer if these things did not transpire exactly as written. A powerful burning in the bosom can replace fact checking.

[Moksha]

You heathens,

Instead of fact checking the faith-promoting words of the Lords true and living prophet on the earth today, you should humbly fall on your knees and ask the God of the heavens in mighty prayer if these things did not transpire exactly as written. A powerful burning in the bosom can replace fact checking.

Awe-inspiring faith-promotional stories are hard to come by. Say for instance President Nelson had planted some zucchini. They grew just fine, but they were unexceptional average zucchini. If President Nelson were to describe these zucchini as being 10 ft in length, having tailfins, and having encouraged 6000 Uruguayans to donate the gold fillings from their teeth to build a Temple. Well, that would be a story worth telling in books, magazine articles, and in General Conference talks.

Sometimes you've got to give the crowd something to take home. A zucchini that could feed a crowd of 23,000 conference-goers is mighty faith-promoting. Even better if it can land a small plane in Delta, Utah.

[drumdude]

Has anyone considered that the definition of "on fire" "spiral death dive" and "farmer's field" may have been different in the 1970s?


We are simply reading into the story our modern ideas.