Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience

[Dr Moore]

RI and DrW, I feel like each of you are making points that to some extent talk past each other. DrW seems to be taking Nelson at his word, which at face value describes an event characterized by specifically-worded circumstances which unavoidably should have a paper trail with NTSB. It does not have such a paper trail, and therefore Nelson’s retelling must be suspect. RI appears to be tacking the other way, building a sort of legal framework around the event, following the evidence while allowing for an inconsistent witness. I think both of you guys are brilliant and hope for less combativeness. In important ways, you’re both right. Especially when it boils down to the OP, which is that something about Nelson’s story fails to pass the smell test.

I wonder if newspaper history in Delta UT might have a discoverable mention about these events? More than one commenter here looked at the Color Country (St George) news, but what about Delta UT?

Would that FAA FOIA path be worthy of pursuing?

Lastly, I come back to a point of inconsistency of Nelson’s own words. He says these events occurred AFTER the halfway point in the flight from SLC to SGU, right? And later claims that the plane made an emergency landing in a farmer’s field near Delta. A map shows us that Delta UT is not even half way to SGU from SLC. This fact means one of two things, that I can imagine. (1) according to Nelson’s sequence of events, the pilot must half turned BACK towards SLC on the emergency glide, having passed Delta already and then setting down in a field near Delta. Or, (2) the flight wasn’t a direct flight, and the “halfway” point Nelson recalls being announced was a halfway alert en route to a closer city — eg, yes he was flying SLC to SGU, but the pilot announced passing the halfway point to a stopover city and Nelson forgot that small detail.

(1) allows for a private or charter plane, while (2) requires a commercial flight, which in that year could only have been Sky West, connecting through Cedar City.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

RI,

Funny you should say that. I just emailed the NTSB about reporting requirements in 1976 with details of the alleged incident. It'd be awesome if they got back to me.

- Doc

[Gadianton]

I wonder if newspaper history in Delta UT might have a discoverable mention about these events? More than one commenter here looked at the Color Country (St George) news, but what about Delta UT?

I haven't been able to convince myself to pull the trigger yet, but I'd say boots on the ground with the locals would be the next step.

https://wchsutah.org/businesses/skywest.php
https://wchsutah.org/aviation/aviation- ... 1983-05-17

The Wasatch county historical society seems to have a particular interest in Sky West, every aircraft event they can get their hands on, and everybody seems to be Mormon.

I've came close to emailing them a couple times now, their email address is at the bottom of the pages, but I won't just con them and pass myself off as an inquisitive member, but as a critic, I'm not sure how much they'll want to talk. I'm dying to know if Rusty's adventures have ever come up for them though.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well, someone better email them or this bull in a China shop will do it. Like. By close of business today.

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

I'm having a hard time understanding why an engine exploding and a plane making an emergency landing wouldn't be a reportable incident in 1976. That seems like a reach, to believe a commercial carrier in 1976 wouldn't either be required to do so, or for insurance reasons wouldn't need to (unless they self-insure, which I wouldn't know how to verify).

- Doc

Doc,

Agree. Shown below is the result of an explosion and fire (sound familiar?) involving a P&W jet engine on a Boeing 777 in February of this year. Who in the world would think that this in-flight engine explosion and fire would not have required an NTSB report?



Certainly not the NTSB:

US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) chairman Robert Sumwalt says a preliminary assessment suggests one of the fan blades had a metal fatigue crack.

Federal Aviation Administration head Stephen Dickson says inspectors have quickly concluded that inspections should be done more frequently on the type of hollow fan blades in certain Pratt & Whitney engines that are used on some Boeing 777s.

The situation Nelson described was worse than this. After the explosion he witnessed, the engine spewed flaming fuel and oil all over the aircraft, which was "engulfed in flames" in one of his many versions.

So, DrW, was this an incident or an accident?

[Res Ipsa]

RI and DrW, I feel like each of you are making points that to some extent talk past each other. DrW seems to be taking Nelson at his word, which at face value describes an event characterized by specifically-worded circumstances which unavoidably should have a paper trail with NTSB. It does not have such a paper trail, and therefore Nelson’s retelling must be suspect. RI appears to be tacking the other way, building a sort of legal framework around the event, following the evidence while allowing for an inconsistent witness. I think both of you guys are brilliant and hope for less combativeness. In important ways, you’re both right. Especially when it boils down to the OP, which is that something about Nelson’s story fails to pass the smell test.

I wonder if newspaper history in Delta UT might have a discoverable mention about these events? More than one commenter here looked at the Color Country (St George) news, but what about Delta UT?

Would that FAA FOIA path be worthy of pursuing?

Lastly, I come back to a point of inconsistency of Nelson’s own words. He says these events occurred AFTER the halfway point in the flight from SLC to SGU, right? And later claims that the plane made an emergency landing in a farmer’s field near Delta. A map shows us that Delta UT is not even half way to SGU from SLC. This fact means one of two things, that I can imagine. (1) according to Nelson’s sequence of events, the pilot must half turned BACK towards SLC on the emergency glide, having passed Delta already and then setting down in a field near Delta. Or, (2) the flight wasn’t a direct flight, and the “halfway” point Nelson recalls being announced was a halfway alert en route to a closer city — eg, yes he was flying SLC to SGU, but the pilot announced passing the halfway point to a stopover city and Nelson forgot that small detail.

(1) allows for a private or charter plane, while (2) requires a commercial flight, which in that year could only have been Sky West, connecting through Cedar City.

I agree with your diagnosis.

I'm thinking maybe an e-mail to the FAA first asking the best way to find what we are looking for. Doc's e-mailed the NTSB.

[Res Ipsa]

I wonder if newspaper history in Delta UT might have a discoverable mention about these events? More than one commenter here looked at the Color Country (St George) news, but what about Delta UT?

I haven't been able to convince myself to pull the trigger yet, but I'd say boots on the ground with the locals would be the next step.

https://wchsutah.org/businesses/skywest.php
https://wchsutah.org/aviation/aviation- ... 1983-05-17

The Wasatch county historical society seems to have a particular interest in Sky West, every aircraft event they can get their hands on, and everybody seems to be Mormon.

I've came close to emailing them a couple times now, their email address is at the bottom of the pages, but I won't just con them and pass myself off as an inquisitive member, but as a critic, I'm not sure how much they'll want to talk. I'm dying to know if Rusty's adventures have ever come up for them though.

Maybe. I think boots on the ground would be interesting and fun. I wish I had time to take a trip to Utah and give it a try.

[Tom]

I wonder if newspaper history in Delta UT might have a discoverable mention about these events? More than one commenter here looked at the Color Country (St George) news, but what about Delta UT?

I believe several here have looked at the Millard County Chronicle.

[Res Ipsa]

I wonder if newspaper history in Delta UT might have a discoverable mention about these events? More than one commenter here looked at the Color Country (St George) news, but what about Delta UT?

I believe several here have looked at the Millard County Chronicle.

If I recall correctly, there were two Millard County Papers in 1976. I looked at them both. I should really keep of log of what I've looked at. I think I looked for the entire decade. That's what I've been generally doing.

[DrW]

RI,

Funny you should say that. I just emailed the NTSB about reporting requirements in 1976 with details of the alleged incident. It'd be awesome if they got back to me.

- Doc

Doc,
Your chutzpah here is admirable. Well done and good luck.

Spoke with my mother in southern Utah yesterday for Easter. I asked her and my sister, who drives her around, to keep an eye out for something like this Navajo in a field when driving around Cedar City or Delta. Although they have never heard anything about Nelson and his miraculous adventure in 1976, I asked them to keep an eye out just the same.