The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

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Tim
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The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

Post by Tim »

I thought this testimonial by Patrick Mason really started to create a template for the future messaging of the LDS church (I've queued it up to his final testimony).
https://youtu.be/RU4wfl74qAU?t=4208

In short I think the unique messaging on the LDS church will be:
  • There are lots of good places to follow Christianity, this is one of them.
  • We have a unique priesthood.
  • We have a theology that recognizes Heavenly Mother (look how feminist we are).
  • Baptism for the Dead makes us fully universalist (no one goes to Hell)
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Kishkumen
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Re: The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

Post by Kishkumen »

This is a pretty good template for the future. It may not be exactly my message, but I think it is a great improvement over past testimonies. As people become more knowledgeable, aware, and comfortable with the place of Mormonism in the Christian-Western tradition, Mormons will be able to be more robust and convincing in these kinds of witnesses. Right now it is still somewhat tentative and tepid, but I don't think this is really Patrick Mason's fault. A lot of work remains to be done.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
Dr Exiled
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Re: The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

Post by Dr Exiled »

Tepid Testimony Time?

I think something like this is inevitable due to reality slowly drifting through the membership. However, I think losing the one and only moniker will have a negative effect on numbers. I don't think people will want to devote so much time and money to just another church. I don't have the numbers, but I would think that people still need to believe that there is some sort of specialness they will get in order to part with so much time and money. The mopologists certainly believe that they are entitled to collect on their Mormon bill once on the other side. I think this promise of future greatness is what definitely drives them and others who remain.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
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Tim
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Re: The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

Post by Tim »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:07 pm
Tepid Testimony Time?

I think losing the one and only moniker will have a negative effect on numbers.
Embracing universalism makes it easy to give up "God's one True Church".

And yes, numbers will drop. I'm suggesting a way they will move forward with just people who are comfortable being where they were raised.
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Aristotle Smith
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Re: The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

Post by Aristotle Smith »

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Last edited by Aristotle Smith on Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

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I am puzzled by all of the above comments. I listened both to the summary and the material before that. Both made it clear that he was supporting the whole meal of traditional Mormonism. (only leaving out advocating polygamy).

There was a restoration of priesthood, doctrine, covenants, and ordinances by God through Joseph Smith. He is glad that even though we do not know everything he is glad we do know things and can say I know even though there is value to sometimes say I believe or hope. He is glad to be Christian, that is not new for members of the Church of Jesus Christ.

He is glad for the community of the church and believes that community helps people learn to love each other. That is hardly a new idea for the Mormon church. It has always been a key foundation for members.

I am completely puzzled that anybody would see this as watered down or altered.

I am puzzled as to why universalist is applied to Mormon. I do not remember the presenter claiming such. It is true Mormon hope is spread wider than hardcore Calvinists but it is the peculiar mechanism that is particular to Mormonism.But Mormon theory does have terestial kingdom folks and some though perhaps few stuck with the devil and his kingdom of hell. It qualifies as somewhat or nearer to universalism than some theories.
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Re: The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

Post by Lem »

huckelberry wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:31 pm
I am puzzled by all of the above comments. I listened both to the summary and the material before that. Both made it clear that he was supporting the whole meal of traditional Mormonism. (only leaving out advocating polygamy).

There was a restoration of priesthood, doctrine, covenants, and ordinances by God through Joseph Smith. He is glad that even though we do not know everything he is glad we do know things and can say I know even though there is value to sometimes say I believe or hope. He is glad to be Christian, that is not new for members of the Church of Jesus Christ.

He is glad for the community of the church and believes that community helps people learn to love each other. That is hardly a new idea for the Mormon church. It has always been a key foundation for members.

I am completely puzzled that anybody would see this as watered down or altered.
Is is altered from when I was last in several decades ago. There was absolutely no "we do not know everything," only I KNOW (insert various Mormon-centric statements.) also, there was NEVER an acceptance that we were Christian, we were a "peculiar people," and we were proud of it. Other Christian religions were disparaged as being misguided, deluded, etc. And while yes, Mormon community has long been an idea, it was also carefully trained into us as youth that no one else could do "community" like us Mormons. the GA who not that long ago said "where will you go? What will you do?" to those leaving was directly tapping into that exclusiveness.

Of course, none of this is right or good, but I do find it interesting that as ideas evolve, there is a persistent "we were never at war with EastAsia" mentality.

I'm not speaking of you personally, Huck, as I think it's very common to not catch those changes as they slowly evolve, but I really do see an evolvement, and a definite intent on the part of lds leaders to not recognize those changes (which would be far more healthy), in favor of insisting we have always been that way, as though admitting growth and change is somehow a weakness.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

I think it was, what, ten years ago we suggested to the SCMC they move the cojcolds in this direction? Honestly, I thought the only way TSCC would survive being anything more than a real estate holdings company was to become another Christian denomination. This is a smart move. They basically turn into just another church, but they don't have to totally ditch the Mormon, er, cojcolds branding.

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Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
Philo Sofee
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Re: The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

Post by Philo Sofee »

"This church is an extraordinary place........"

Well THAT definitely is a new change! And he goes on to say I have friends in other good places and churches.....

Wow........change is happenin eh?

It's a good move. Everyone in all the other churches feel the same way, but notice how this approach no longer puts anyone on the defensive. This can ONLY be good. There is too much animosity in our world. It's nice to see some Mormons trying to find ways to overcome that, and yet still affirm to the faithful that their choice of church is still good. I say good on him! I am impressed.
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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: The Future of the Mormon Testimonial

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Tim wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:22 pm
In short I think the unique messaging on the LDS church will be:
  • There are lots of good places to follow Christianity, this is one of them.
  • We have a unique priesthood.
  • We have a theology that recognizes Heavenly Mother (look how feminist we are).
  • Baptism for the Dead makes us fully universalist (no one goes to Hell)
That's actually a good list. Much better than the old list the Church was thinking about using:

--Sure Joseph Smith was an outlaw and was arrested in three states for a variety of crimes, but he was framed.

--The Church was institutionally racist from its founding through 1978, but let's not nitpick.

--The Mountain Meadow's Massacre was really just a small misunderstanding.

--At a Catholic wedding, the bride is pregnant. At a Mormon wedding, the bride's mother is pregnant.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
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