Belief as Cop Out

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
User avatar
Morley
CTR B
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:17 pm
Location: Mahonri Young's studio at Weir Farm in Wilton, Connecticut

Re: Belief as Cop Out

Post by Morley »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:46 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:23 pm
Hmmm. I think of perception and paradigm formation as story telling. But I hadn't gotten as far thinking about shared stories. More to think about. Thank you again for the topic and your thoughts.
I am not a specialist in human development, so I may be mistaken. My assumption is based on the idea that our perceptions are being organized before we can apprehend, let alone tell, stories. But honestly I would love to know anything more accurate that may help me get a better handle on things.
Some theorists suggest that our earliest memories form when we're first able to develop narrative, around the age of five.
User avatar
Kishkumen
High Councilman
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Belief as Cop Out

Post by Kishkumen »

Morley wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:23 am
Some theorists suggest that our earliest memories form when we're first able to develop narrative, around the age of five.
Thank you, Morley! Yes, I recall reading something similar. Those would have to be memories of a particular kind, since we are obviously learning and retaining things before that.
Esse et facere quam videri
User avatar
Morley
CTR B
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:17 pm
Location: Mahonri Young's studio at Weir Farm in Wilton, Connecticut

Re: Belief as Cop Out

Post by Morley »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:50 am
Morley wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:23 am
Some theorists suggest that our earliest memories form when we're first able to develop narrative, around the age of five.
Thank you, Morley! Yes, I recall reading something similar. Those would have to be memories of a particular kind, since we are obviously learning and retaining things before that.
Of course we are. The development of language in early infancy, for example. And we all know how culturally loaded language is.

I think we have to be very careful, however, in assigning too much to actual early memory.

As an adult, Piaget famously remembered a detailed and emotional incident of his own kidnapping as an infant. The trouble was that it had never happened, it turned out that it was a constructed memory made of stories that he'd been told in later childhood.

But this is completely veering away from your delightful topic. Carry on.

.
User avatar
Kishkumen
High Councilman
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Belief as Cop Out

Post by Kishkumen »

Morley wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:00 pm
Of course we are. The development of language in early infancy, for example. And we all know how culturally loaded language is.

I think we have to be very careful, however, in assigning too much to actual early memory.

As an adult, Piaget famously remembered a detailed and emotional incident of his own kidnapping as an infant. The trouble was that it had never happened, it turned out that it was a constructed memory made of stories that he'd been told in later childhood.

But this is completely veering away from your delightful topic. Carry on.
Thank you! I am pretty sure that I have Sunbeam memories. That class started at age 3.

I am not worried about how much one assigns to early memory in that my concern is not with what a person later remembers of their childhood. What I am thinking of is the development of conscious awareness and how the mind begins to organize sense perceptions. Whether I can later remember the process of sorting light and dark, etc., is neither here nor there. I am speculating that the fundamental learning that happens in bodily communication with the environment and other human beings is probably a lot more consequential than we often appreciate. I don't know that I am necessarily right, but my speculation--by way of full disclosure--does inform my views.
Esse et facere quam videri
User avatar
Morley
CTR B
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:17 pm
Location: Mahonri Young's studio at Weir Farm in Wilton, Connecticut

Re: Belief as Cop Out

Post by Morley »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:33 pm
I am speculating that the fundamental learning that happens in bodily communication with the environment and other human beings is probably a lot more consequential than we often appreciate.
I think entire field of mainstream psychology would wholeheartedly agree.

.
User avatar
Morley
CTR B
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:17 pm
Location: Mahonri Young's studio at Weir Farm in Wilton, Connecticut

Re: Belief as Cop Out

Post by Morley »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:33 pm
Thank you! I am pretty sure that I have Sunbeam memories. That class started at age 3.
I have these same sorts of recollections. I often wonder if they're real, or a blind spot that my mind is filling in for me.
User avatar
Kishkumen
High Councilman
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Belief as Cop Out

Post by Kishkumen »

Morley wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:42 pm
Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:33 pm
I am speculating that the fundamental learning that happens in bodily communication with the environment and other human beings is probably a lot more consequential than we often appreciate.
I think entire field of mainstream psychology would wholeheartedly agree.

.
LOL! Well, it is good to know that my speculations are not so far outside of the mainstream of what people who actually know something are thinking.
Esse et facere quam videri
User avatar
Morley
CTR B
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:17 pm
Location: Mahonri Young's studio at Weir Farm in Wilton, Connecticut

Re: Belief as Cop Out

Post by Morley »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:59 pm
Morley wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:42 pm
I think entire field of mainstream psychology would wholeheartedly agree.
LOL! Well, it is good to know that my speculations are not so far outside of the mainstream of what people who actually know something are thinking.
I know, right?! Especially when summarized and blessed by some anonymous, internet dude!


edit: I apologize to all for the derail. Back to your regularly scheduled program.
.
Post Reply