What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

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Sir Sam Steele
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What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

Post by Sir Sam Steele »

I have been a troll in the comments section of Sic et Non since the days that "Dear Dan's Diary" was a thing. In that time I have learned a few things about Dr. Peterson and his associates. Nothing I say here will be a revelation as I think it confirms what others have long-observed in Dr. Peterson's behavior, intellectual capacity, and character.

As a troll I've played the part of heartland believer, TBM, atheist, Canadian Mountie and purveyor of fine hats. In some cases I've been able to play the long game and stay in character over a period of months. At other times, I've worn out my welcome quickly and have been banned by Dr Peterson for one reason or another.

It always surprises me how Dan always falls for the troll. Always. Every Dr. Scratch post here produces 10 passive-aggressive responses on Sic et Non. How can Dr. Peterson not understand that he's being toyed with? That his reactions are such predictable trainwrecks? That he is is the lolcow of Mopologetics. As Kiwi Farms is to Chris-chan, DiscussMormonism is to Dan Peterson.

So here are a few observations:

1) Dr. Peterson is highly skilled with words but lacks genuine intellectual curiosity. It seems that he reads just enough to sound like he is acquainted with a subject. When in fact, it is apparent he ususally reads the first 20-30 pages of any given book and calls it good. Dr. Peterson reads just enough to "win" arguments. He shows no real interest in exploring truth. One thing you will notice in the comments section is that Dr. Peterson is more interested in debating the discussion, more than he is about debating the actual topic at hand. So when he is presented with compelling counter arguments, he will focus on the identity and motives of the person making the argument. By so doing, Dr. Peterson is able to maintain the illusion that he is a learned scholar without engaging any criticism of his ideas. And, let's be honest. Dr. Peterson rarely has an original idea and generally parrots others. Often, incorrectly. Camus anyone? He comes close to intelligence with this lips, but his heart is far from it.

2) Dan also has questionable ethics. He will gladly attack or ban any "critic" who is rude or aggressive. But when Woody or Pahoran behave even more aggressively, Dan gives them a high five and atta-boys. In fact, all Woody and Pahoran seem to do in the comments section is stalk and dox other posters. This goes back to having arguments about the argument, rather than on the subject at hand. Dan, Woody, and Pahoran will do anything to obsfucate that they really have a very very lose grasp on the subject matter.

3) Woody makes me particularly sad. He will make the occasional post about his faith or family that is quite touching. He speaks of the Love of God. But his behavior and comments show his nasty un-Christian side. And of course, for a man educated at Brown University to waste his entire career in Mopologetics is depressing. Lou is obsessed with doxing people. Both Dan and Lou seem to have a problem with anonymous posting and thus feel justified in naming names. Lou is even obsessed with people IRL. Poor Gina Colvin has been stalked by Lou -- both online and IRL -- for years now.

4) Perhaps the most important thing Sic et Non shows about that Mopologists fundamentally mistake a rhetorical "dunk" with truth.

But now it is time to move on from both Daniel C. Peterson and Mormonism. I am called to return to the great north.

ETA:

JK Rowling did nothing wrong.

Epstein didn't kill himself.
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Gadianton
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Re: What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

Post by Gadianton »

Welcome to the forum Sir Sam. And congratulations on your knighting. Perhaps other figures from SeN past will show up again one day having also been knighted? Given the deference from the SeN crowd to intellectuals from England, perhaps that would make them more welcome?

I tried to post there a single time and I was banned immediately. All I did was let Mr. Midgley be aware of my academic standing. They insist the same from others so I don't know what the big deal was.
This goes back to having arguments about the argument...
It goes back to the core method of the FARMS Review.

I think it's interesting for people who are so adamant about life after death and the great reward of the next world -- "eyes have not seen nor ears have heard", the proprietor reminds us, that they are so easily angered by random people who take pot shots at their faith. I'm pretty sure if I knew I'd be receiving a wire transfer of several million dollars and an estate awaited my arrival on a tropical island within the week, that I wouldn't care what any of my neighbors think about my fortune. If they don't believe it, who cares?

The fact that they care so much proves with near 100% certainty that they don't really believe in life after death, or heaven.

What do you think of their treatment of Gemli?
Philo Sofee
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Re: What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

Post by Philo Sofee »

Gadianton
The fact that they care so much proves with near 100% certainty that they don't really believe in life after death, or heaven.
That is a very interesting observation here Gad. I can absolutely state however that they DO feel they HAVE to CONVINCE people. It's part of the package. They must make sure people believe alike in Mormonism. Otherwise the blood and sins of this generation will be on THEM for not correcting, intimidating, testifying, etc. The guilt trips within Mormonism has entirely warped the desire to learn into the desire to convince. Sic et Non is direct proof.

I felt like that as an apologist. I know the feeling and what is thought inside. It is a fearful thrillful, because at the judgment, they want so bad to tell Jesus, hey, I testified, I am free of THEIR sins, can I now come in? THAT is a most powerful motivator, because the blood and sins of this generation? Who in hell's name would want ALL that?! And yet that is the threat if they don't testify, and convert, and convince. Their own sins are irrelevant because they are erased by their own works of doing testifying and working the work of the Lord.

Love? Forget love, I'm testifying! I'm making damn good and sure no one else's sins are coming down on me. My own? They are miniscule because I am so busying doing the work of the Lord, defending truth, my sins will be easy to pay for, but ALL OTHERS?! Blech! No thanks, now get out of my way so I can testify and mock enemies, humiliate those who don't think like I do.

The psychological manipulation is terrific and quite ably genius since we all can see it does last an entire lifetime. Don't threaten them with their own sins, since everyone knows they don't sin terribly, but others?! GADZOOKS man, I will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to make damn good and sure no one ELSE'S heinous sins come on my head! THEY are really, really, really bad! My sins? Meh, I don't do nuthin wicked like the rest of the world.

Come on, admit it, we are almost JEALOUS of this ingenious device, aren't we? I mean DAY-UM, the church gots hundreds of billions of bucks man! It is that psychology that makes Mitt Romney to give tens of millions to the church annually! What other church brings on ALL the sins UPON their own congregations secretly in order to get them to do the church's work?! Jesus? He don't mean spit man, he is the one THREATENING (however subtly) his own people with the blood and sins of the rest of the entire world! And yet, wasn't he supposed to have taken care of that?

I remember on some FAIR emails when I was on the list when we would high five and tell each other I wrote yet another article which gets rid of more blood and sins of this generation because I am showing the way to properly believe in Joseph Smith and Mormonism. The incentive is based entirely upon fear, not love.
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Dr Moore
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Re: What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

Post by Dr Moore »

Welcome, Sir Sam. Your observations were my own back in 2019 when I found this board after witnessing the grossly hypocritical treatment of guests and former members within the Mopologetics community.

Out of curiosity, was your fine-printed ETA a sneaky troll-check here too?
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Sir Sam Steele
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Re: What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

Post by Sir Sam Steele »

Gadianton wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:47 pm
Welcome to the forum Sir Sam. And congratulations on your knighting. Perhaps other figures from SeN past will show up again one day having also been knighted? Given the deference from the SeN crowd to intellectuals from England, perhaps that would make them more welcome?
Thank you for the kind welcome, Gadianton.
What do you think of their treatment of Gemli?
The treatment of gemli by Lou, Dan, and Pahoran is shameful. Now, I don't always see eye-to-eye with gemli as I generally hold a more romantic Whitmanesque view of God. However, no honest person can suggest that gemli's views are not thoughtful and well-considered.

And to your point, the interaction with gemli demonstrates just how little faith these gentlemen seem to have. If one has hope in God through faith, why be bothered by fairly straightforward anti-theist arguments? As it says in Galatians, the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, and peace; the opposite of what is found in their interactions with gemli.
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Sir Sam Steele
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Re: What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

Post by Sir Sam Steele »

Dr Moore wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:18 pm
Welcome, Sir Sam. Your observations were my own back in 2019 when I found this board after witnessing the grossly hypocritical treatment of guests and former members within the Mopologetics community.
Thank you for your kind welcome. Like you, my journey out of Mormonism began when I started looking to FARMS for answers only to find rhetorical tricks, intentional misrepresentations, and the lack of grace these shown in FARMS apologetic writings.
Out of curiosity, was your fine-printed ETA a sneaky troll-check here too?
A bit, yes. I'm not one for conspiracies, but if I ever decided to pick one up, it would probably be about Epstein's death.

As for Ms. Rowling, I think her assertion that female people have historically faced oppression on the basis of their sex, and not only their gender, is correct. Therefore, there are circumstances where sex-segregated spaces are appropriate. For example, shelters or rape crisis centers. Ms. Rowling expressed what I found to be a very reasonable position and I think that the subsequent treatment of her has been unfair. Of course, this is a complex political issue -- particularly in the UK. But ultimately I am in favor of more reasonable conversation.
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Re: What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

Post by Lem »

It always surprises me how Dan always falls for the troll. Always. Every Dr. Scratch post here produces 10 passive-aggressive responses on Sic et Non. How can Dr. Peterson not understand that he's being toyed with? That his reactions are such predictable trainwrecks? That he is is the lolcow of Mopologetics. As Kiwi Farms is to Chris-chan, DiscussMormonism is to Dan Peterson.
I disagree vehemently with that last line. There may be various posters here who get a rise out of DCP, but it in no way defines this board as a whole, nor is it a description in same way as the abuse of Chandler defines kiwi farms. Your comparison is reprehensible, Smokey. (or whatever pseudonym you are hiding behind now.)
"choosing to work the job she loved and elevated to the end." -honorentheos
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Sir Sam Steele
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Re: What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

Post by Sir Sam Steele »

Lem -- I hope you will forgive me for failing to mention your meticulous documentation of Dr. Peterson's plagarism. It was invaluable during my time in the SeN comments section.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

What is Chris-chan and kiwi farms? Also, is SSS Smokey?

- doc
Clinton King commenting on SeN: "My (perhaps) uncommon personal opinion: I find it easier to doubt the accuracy of carbon dating than the historicity of the Book of Abraham narrative." Good, Lord.
Lem
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Re: What I've Observed Trolling Sic et Non

Post by Lem »

Sir Sam Steele wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:10 am
....As Kiwi Farms is to Chris-chan, DiscussMormonism is to Dan Peterson....
Incorrect.
Kiwi Farms is an immensely creepy American stalking forum run by manchild Joshua Conner Moon out of his mom's house.[2] The people who are stalked are what are known as "lolcows" to the site’s userbase or "exceptional individuals”.[note 1] Think some of the Internet's worst psychopaths projecting their frustration onto minorities, and now that you're picturing GamerGate, think creepier....

Critics of Kiwi Farms point out that the "Lolcows" who end up on the website are digitally stalked, harassed (by having rumours and smears posted about them) and doxed (including full names, birthdays, workplaces, personal social media accounts, and even street addresses and phone numbers)....

Many "Lolcows" on the forum have (or in most cases, are simply accused of having) autism, and Kiwi Farms derogatorily labels these people "spergs" (after Asperger's syndrome). Transgender "Lolcows" are described as the pejorative "troons" or "trannies", they often end up in the "Rat Kings" category, and are often portrayed as either faking their dysphoria or being mentally unstable.[11] Most "cows" are described as what are known as "exceptional individuals", coined after a post filter was installed to replace the word "retards".

On its now-banned Twitter account, Kiwi Farms described its purpose as: "Gossip and exploitation of the mentally handicapped for amusement purposes."[12] For this reason, and the fact there is content that is offensive to the disabled on the forum, Kiwi Farms is considered by some to be a hate speech website. Furthermore, the sign-up page for the site once came with a disclaimer saying "autistics will be laughed at. Trannies will be misgendered. People will try to find where you live."[13] So, the community is a bunch of assholes.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms
"choosing to work the job she loved and elevated to the end." -honorentheos
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