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Gad regarding the stained glass window. Here's the actual interior of my growing up church. While the sanctuary used to be reversed (they turned all the pews and the stained glass--that was the talk of the congregation!) This is how it looked when I was a kid (regardless of the turn around) and how it looks today. We sat on folding chairs before it got the pews. That's how plain it was and still is. The new-to-me bapistry is in front of the stained glass and behind the pulpit under the floor. There's more stained glass on the sides but it's not what you'd call ornate.

The wall art of Jesus was in the basement where SS was held.

Welcome to my childhood.






ETA: I found a photo of the wall art in the interior of the church. I can't bring myself to post it here since my old Pastor is in the photo. It's kind of sacred to me.

Fence Sitter wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:27 am

Interesting thread.

This makes me wonder what the imagery of Christ was in Smith's culture and time?

I don't know, except didn't one of our fellow apologists-turned-apostate do a master's thesis or something on Mormonism and the cross?

Also, this is really embarrassing, my fellow missionaries must recall though in the 90's, a new commissioned picture of Jesus came out. This was the picture featured on the "Christ pamphlets" that we'd distribute to people if a Book of Mormon was too much. The legend went, that ETB consulted with the artist, and because ETB was a prophet, he knew what Jesus looked like because he sees him all the time. And so ETB could make minor corrections here and there so the picture would be more realistic. Occasionally I'd be with a missionary that would insist on telling that story to an investigator and I'd be flush with embarrassment. I assumed Jesus was white, but I was never far gone enough to believe that ETB channeled his likeness through a local artist.

that's a nice chapel, Jersey Girl. I like the windows a lot. LDS chapels literally have no class. they are cinder block bomb-shelters with horrible square windows.

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:10 am

that's a nice chapel, Jersey Girl. I like the windows a lot. LDS chapels literally have no class. they are cinder block bomb-shelters with horrible square windows.

I've been to LDS Chapels quite a lot. I love my old church, Gad. It was built in the 1930's though the church started in the early 1920's in more than one location. I reckon I was about 2 years old when I started in the nursery class there. Grew up there and didn't leave until I was married there. I have SO many good memories from my time there.

How old do you think your friend is? I don't recall you saying. I'm asking because the things he's saying are quite foreign to me and I've been to a LOT of Protestant churches I think.

For what it is worth, I’ve always thought of Jesus looking like a Jewish guy. Most of the depictions I’ve seen of Jesus in evangelical churches were mostly in stained glass. I suppose I’ve seen some artists renderings ofJesus in Bibles with pictures in it. In those, he was not white, but not particularly dark either.

I grew up in a United Methodist church that had a stained glass window of Jesus as the good Shepherd. I suppose his skin was more light than dark. My focus when I’d look at it, was the tender love he had for his sheep.

When I was a member of a Southern Baptist church, the church building was sold to a Presbyterian Church of America (PCA). The PCA church replaced the stain glass window of Jesus with one without Jesus on it. They were kind to save the Jesus window for the Baptist church. I’m a member of a PCA church now, by the way. It was the expository teaching that led me to the PCA church. I’ve never seen a rendering of Jesus in the few PCA churches I’ve attended.

I’ve often heard it said that Jesus paid for our sins on the cross and since he is no longer there and atonement was accomplished at the cross, and since Jesus has ascended to heaven, that it is more appropriate to have an empty cross.

Sounds like your friend is set in his ways and thoughts.

Not sure if that is what you’re looking for. I suppose anything can become an idol.

msnobody wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:53 am

I’ve often heard it said that Jesus paid for our sins on the cross and since he is no longer there and atonement was accomplished at the cross, and since Jesus has ascended to heaven, that it is more appropriate to have an empty cross.

That does make some sense but what about this? There was one year that our SB Church did a dramatic play type thing outside where one of the men was actually put up on a cross to depict the crucifixion. No, his hands weren't nailed to it. Big 6 foot trucker guy. I mean they had him on the ground being fake nailed to it then they actually lifted him upright. It was a huge cross. It was also a very powerful portrayal.

I don't think that is idolatry, do you? I actually don't think much in terms of idolatry. Maybe...celebrity worship or materialism?

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:10 am

that's a nice chapel, Jersey Girl. I like the windows a lot. LDS chapels literally have no class. they are cinder block bomb-shelters with horrible square windows.

I like the simplicity and the clean lines. I find the flag near the pulpit jarring. Was it there when you were a kid.

It’s been so long, I can’t recall whether there was a flag in the LDS chapel I attended as a kid. Are there flags in the LDS chapels now? If so, has it always been that way?

Jersey Girl wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:00 am

msnobody wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:53 am

I’ve often heard it said that Jesus paid for our sins on the cross and since he is no longer there and atonement was accomplished at the cross, and since Jesus has ascended to heaven, that it is more appropriate to have an empty cross.

That does make some sense but what about this? There was one year that our SB Church did a dramatic play type thing outside where one of the men was actually put up on a cross to depict the crucifixion. No, his hands weren't nailed to it. Big 6 foot trucker guy. I mean they had him on the ground being fake nailed to it then they actually lifted him upright. It was a huge cross. It was also a very powerful portrayal.

I don't think that is idolatry, do you? I actually don't think much in terms of idolatry. Maybe...celebrity worship or materialism?

No, I don’t see that as idolatry.

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:10 am

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:10 am

that's a nice chapel, Jersey Girl. I like the windows a lot. LDS chapels literally have no class. they are cinder block bomb-shelters with horrible square windows.

I like the simplicity and the clean lines. I find the flag near the pulpit jarring. Was it there when you were a kid.

It’s been so long, I can’t recall whether there was a flag in the LDS chapel I attended as a kid. Are there flags in the LDS chapels now? If so, has it always been that way?

We had a US flag and a Christian flag in the church I grew up in (UMC), and we have an American flag and flags of the countries in which we provide financial support to missionaries in those countries(PCA).