Gems from Doctrines of Salvation?

[Holy Ghost]

It has been years and years since I read Doctrines of Salvation. I was then yet a TBM. I recently came across a set. I don't have the time or the inclination to read the volumes, cover to cover, again. I am wondering if there is a good list of its bizarre "doctrines" anywhere? I'd also like to hear what might be your favorite in the bizarre department, preferrably with reference to where specifically in the volumes I would find each one. In advance, thank you.

[cinepro]

There's probably too much to list. But it's also interesting that quite a bit is definitely presented as his own personal opinion. For example, one infamous entry is "Seer stone not used in the Book of Mormon translation", where he says:

While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seer stone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the Church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that this stone was used for this purpose. The reason I give for this conclusion is found in the statement of the Lord to the Brother of Jared as recorded in Ether 3:22-24.

-----------------------------------------

It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the Prophet would substitute something evidently inferior under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the Prophet did possess a seer stone, which he may have used for some other purposes.

Doctrines of Salvation (Kindle Locations 15240-15242).

(emphasis added)

Obviously the evidence points to him being very wrong on this. Be he clearly says that his conclusion is based on his personal reasoning, not any divine insight.

Just glancing through the book, it is surprising to remember how super literal JFS was about everything. Things were so simple in his world when it came to the scriptures and the gospel.

[Tom]

From an electronic version of the three-volume set:

Volume 1

61: Why Men Are Born to Different Races
65: No Neutrals in Heaven
96-106: The Adam-God Theory
133-37: The Doctrine of Blood Atonement
139-51: Evolution Origin of Life

TRUE DOCTRINE OF EVOLUTION. It was not until man forsook the divine guidance which the Lord was always willing to extend to him, that retrogression set in. The "cave-man" and the savage are products of transgression and sin; for, in the beginning man was intelligent, and directed by light and truth, even by the Savior, Jesus Christ, who is the Mediator between man and God. The destiny of man is to become, through stages of progression, like unto his Father; and after the resurrection from the dead, he shall be added upon, as the scriptures say, until he shall receive all things "which the father hath," and shall be counted as a son and joint-heir with Jesus Christ, the first-fruits of the resurrection and the Savior of the world.

EVOLUTION A DOCTRINE OF THE DEVIL. This, then, is true evolution, which all Latter-day Saints believe. There is something inspiring, ennobling and grand in this view of things, but the other view--which is the doctrine of the devil, who desires all men to be miserable like unto himself, for he was denied a body and the privilege of progression upon this earth--is debasing, and contains not one uplifting or ennobling thought (148}.

Volume 2

87: Birth Control is Wickedness

When a man and a woman are married and they agree, or covenant, to limit their offspring to two or three, and practice devices to accomplish this purpose, they are guilty of iniquity which eventually must be punished. Unfortunately this evil doctrine is being taught as a virtue by many people who consider themselves cultured and highly educated. It has even crept in among members of the Church and has been advocated in some of the classes within the Church.

It should be understood definitely that this kind of doctrine is not only not advocated by the authorities of the Church, but also is condemned by them as wickedness in the sight of the Lord.

88: Spirits Desire Births in Righteous Families

President Brigham Young has this to say about birth control, an abomination practiced by so-called civilized nations, but nations who have forsaken the ways of life:

"There are multitudes of pure and holy spirits waiting to take tabernacles, now what is our duty? To prepare tabernacles for them; to take a course that will not tend to drive those spirits into the families of the wicked, where they will be trained in wickedness, debauchery, and every species of crime. It is the duty of every righteous man and woman to prepare tabernacles for all the spirits they can."

If these iniquitous practices find their place in our hearts and we are guilty, then when we arrive on the other side--and discover that we have deprived ourselves of eternal blessings and are accused by those who were assigned to come to us, because, as President Young has said, they were forced to take bodies in the families of the wicked--how will we feel? Moreover, may we not lose our own salvation if we violate this divine law?

88: Birth Control Leads to Damnation
91: Parental Claim on Children Born under Covenant

When a man and a woman are married in the temple for time and all eternity and then separate, the children will go with the parent who is justified and who has kept the covenants. If neither of them has kept his covenants, the children may be taken away from both of them and given to somebody else, and that would be by virtue of being born under the covenant.

A child is not to be sealed the second time when born under the covenant, but by virtue of that birthright can be transferred.

287: Procreation Limited to Celestial Bodies

Some will gain celestial bodies with all the powers of exaltation and eternal increase. These bodies will shine like the sun as our Savior's does, as described by John. Those who enter the terrestrial kingdom will have terrestrial bodies, and they will not shine like the sun, but they will be more glorious than the bodies of those who receive the telestial glory.

In both of these kingdoms there will be changes in the bodies and limitations. They will not have the power of increase, neither the power or nature to live as husbands and wives, for this will be denied them and they cannot increase.

Those who receive the exaltation in the celestial kingdom will have the "continuation of the seeds forever." They will live in the family relationship. In the terrestrial and in the telestial kingdoms there will be no marriage. Those who enter there will remain "separately and singly" forever.

Some of the functions in the celestial body will not appear in the terrestrial body, neither in the telestial body, and the power of procreation will be removed. I take it that men and women will, in these kingdoms, be just what the so-called Christian world expects us all to be-neither man nor woman, merely immortal beings having received the resurrection.

Volume 3

232-43: Where is the Hill Cumorah?

[Philo Sofee]

It has been years and years since I read Doctrines of Salvation. I was then yet a TBM. I recently came across a set. I don't have the time or the inclination to read the volumes, cover to cover, again. I am wondering if there is a good list of its bizarre "doctrines" anywhere? I'd also like to hear what might be your favorite in the bizarre department, preferrably with reference to where specifically in the volumes I would find each one. In advance, thank you.

I am exactly with ya. I read all 5 of them in "preparation" for my mission in my Senior year of high school. Ayiyi, it's astonishing I had any friends at all....... and, like you, I simply have no reason let alone interest to even think of whether I am at all curious to see what he said. I have such vastly more important and interesting and valuable reading to do.

[Gadianton]

Tom,

That's an intense list. No wonder the apologists are watering down doctrine to stuff like, just a general heaven. But then you have to wonder about the point of belief and faith in the first place? If I had this strong faith and knowledge in the gospel, I'd just believe what the prophets tell me and no apologies. I wouldn't care what you guys think. You could poke holes and make fun and I'd just bear testimony and move on. These guys care so much what the "lone and dreary world" thinks it's insane. They want to have the faith of Job, but the notoriety and respect of any top worldly academic. What's the test in that?

[Tom]

Tom,

That's an intense list. No wonder the apologists are watering down doctrine to stuff like, just a general heaven. But then you have to wonder about the point of belief and faith in the first place? If I had this strong faith and knowledge in the gospel, I'd just believe what the prophets tell me and no apologies. I wouldn't care what you guys think. You could poke holes and make fun and I'd just bear testimony and move on. These guys care so much what the "lone and dreary world" thinks it's insane. They want to have the faith of Job, but the notoriety and respect of any top worldly academic. What's the test in that?

Yes. You won't find passages in Doctrines of Salvation in which Joseph Fielding Smith suggests it's acceptable to believe in progression between the kingdoms, or asserts that the church has no official position on evolution, or declares that the decision of how many children to have and when to have them is a private matter for a husband and wife, or discloses that he is inclined toward a limited Mesoamerican model for the Book of Mormon. Picture a church member who happens to be a college biology professor who openly believes in evolution, is a bit lax in attending his church meetings at times, decides to have three kids rather than 10 (raising three kids takes enough of a mental toll on him and his wife), tells a few close LDS friends that he holds to the limited Mesoamerican geography model, but is mostly faithful, serves a mission, raises his three kids in the church (one does go inactive while in college), twice serves in the ward Sunday School presidency, etc. When said church member dies, however, he doesn't travel to Paradise; rather, he is tossed into Spirit Prison, where he is confronted by the angry spirits of his seven would-be children who were forced to take bodies in five separate Gentile families living in the neighborhood (ironically, said church member always thought those seven particular neighborhood kids were reprobates), his three kids are taken away and assigned to more righteous parents, he is taught in Spirit Prison by Joseph Fielding Smith himself that evolution is a doctrine of the devil and that the Nephite and Jaredite wars happened in western New York, he undergoes spiritual castration (thankfully, it's an outpatient procedure), and he is consigned to the terrestrial kingdom for eternity.

Joseph Fielding Smith:

I say most emphatically, you cannot believe in this theory of the origin of man, and at the same time accept the plan of salvation as set forth by the Lord our God. You must choose the one and reject the other, for they are in direct conflict and there is a gulf separating them which is so great that it cannot be bridged, no matter how much one may try to do so. . . . If life began on the earth, as advocated by Darwin, Huxley, Haeckel (who has been caught openhanded perpetrating a fraud), and others of this school, whether by chance or by some designing hand, then the doctrines of the Church are false.

Doctrines of Salvation 1:141-43.

Smith:

We have our agency and many, very, very many members of this Church, when they come to the judgment and are judged according to their works, are going to be consigned to the telestial kingdom; others to the terrestrial kingdom; because that is the law that they have willed to obey; and we are going to get our reward according to the law that we obey. . . . It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory?

The answer to this question is, No!

Doctrines of Salvation, 2:28, 31.

[Philo Sofee]

Tom
Yes. You won't find passages in Doctrines of Salvation in which Joseph Fielding Smith suggests it's acceptable to believe in progression between the kingdoms, or asserts that the church has no official position on evolution, or declares that the decision of how many children to have and when to have them is a private matter for a husband and wife, or discloses that he is inclined toward a limited Mesoamerican model for the Book of Mormon. Picture a church member who happens to be a college biology professor who openly believes in evolution, is a bit lax in attending his church meetings at times, decides to have three kids rather than 10 (raising three kids takes enough of a mental toll on him and his wife), tells a few close LDS friends that he holds to the limited Mesoamerican geography model, but is mostly faithful, serves a mission, raises his three kids in the church (one does go inactive while in college), twice serves in the ward Sunday School presidency, etc. When said church member dies, however, he doesn't travel to Paradise; rather, he is tossed into Spirit Prison, where he is confronted by the angry spirits of his seven would-be children who were forced to take bodies in five separate Gentile families living in the neighborhood (ironically, said church member always thought those seven particular neighborhood kids were reprobates), his three kids are taken away and assigned to more righteous parents, he is taught in Spirit Prison by Joseph Fielding Smith himself that evolution is a doctrine of the devil and that the Nephite and Jaredite wars happened in western New York, he undergoes spiritual castration (thankfully, it's an outpatient procedure), and he is consigned to the terrestrial kingdom for eternity.

OMG! This sounds like the Mormonism I was raised in... wow, a stroll down memory/horror lane. And to think sooooo many actually took this silliness seriously for decades!

We were told this kind of sh*t in Seminary for 4 years too.....this reminds me of so many seminary lessons we all had to wade through. Back then however, I ate this kind of "doctrine" up.

[Doctor Scratch]

Yes: what *do* the Mopologists think about this book? I'm reminded of the phrase "he was speaking as a man..." Which, come to think of it, you seldom hear anymore.... What's up with that?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Tom,

Good Lord, you just reignited my PTMD. Straight out of the 70’s and 80’s Mormonism I was raised in.

- Doc

[Tom]

I should note that Dennis Horne has commenced a four-month series on "Refuting and Correcting BYU's False Doctrine on the Origin of Man." I'm not making this up. Will Mr. Horne actually publish 55 posts on this topic? Will the series be cross-posted to Sic et Non? Or to Interpreter?

One post includes some wisdom from Joseph Fielding Smith:

ADAM NOT END PRODUCT OF EVOLUTION. Adam was placed here, not a wild, half-civilized savage, but a perfectly-developed man, with wonderful intelligence, for he helped to create this earth. He was chosen in pre-existence to be the first man upon the earth and the father of the human race, and he will preside over his posterity forever.

Now, the Lord did not choose a being that had just developed from the lower forms of life, to be a prince, an archangel, to preside over the human race forever! Adam, as Michael, was one of the greatest intelligences in the spirit world and he stands next to Jesus Christ. When he came upon the earth, the Lord gave him a perfect form of government.