Mofluencer Wars

[master_dc]

This board is one of the most neutral to Dehlin in the Mormon section of internet. I don't recall anyone here as a dehlin fanboy/apologist, maybe the occasional mention of an interview. Personally, I find most of his interviews boring, repetitive, and he doesn't always appear to be paying attention, based on his responses and questions at times. He is not on my rotation of podcasts.

"Whistleblower," if this is your true handle, take this argument to reddit. We have heard all of these accusations, multiple times. I just don't get your end game. We have no power or influence over Dehlin. If Rosebud was assaulted, and you want to take him down, leverage the legal system, provide proof, stop with the Rosebud style timelines... it is a pattern for her and you now.

[Kukulkan]

You tell a rather sordid tale about John Dehlin personally. For you it is very relevant. For me, it is not as my interest in John Dehlin is not that he is some shining example of how to lead one's personal life. I see Dehlin as useful in bringing interviews of people with different perspectives on Mormonism, and helping people adjust as ex-mo's with as little PTMD as possible.

So you're cool with the overall impact of John's work, even if the foundation of that work is based upon lies and fabrication? Sounds familiar.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that everything you have alleged is true. John Dehlin is a manipulative, egotistical maniac. Let's also assume that accusers come forward with proof of their allegations (screenshots, texts, emails, the whole works). Let's also assume that board members also come forward and testify against John Dehlin. With such concrete evidence it is safe to assume that John Dehlin would most likely be forced to resign whether by his own choice or not. Mormon Stories continues on with a new host or a new panel of hosts that rotate out.

The point I am trying to make is that it is very apparent that even if everything you said was true and the scenario played out as I outlined above. The integral substance of Mormon Stories and Open Stories Foundation remains intact. Because Mormon Stories an Open Stories Foundation isn't John Dehlin. MS and Open Stories Foundation is much bigger than John. Mormon Stories is literally its namesake, stories of Mormons/exmormons. It's not the John Dehlin Podcast. Maybe he has retained control with a iron fist as you accused, but the format of the organization focuses on the stories of others, not John. I find John very boring and one dimensional. Any episode he puts out without a interviewee, I skip over. I am more interested in what the people he interviews have to say. Ultimately, MS would survive. This brings me to my overarching point.

You know this. You know that even if you managed to take John Dehlin down, MS and Open Stories Foundation would continue on. Hell, the Church survived over a century of blatant racisct doctrine and implemented policy. Yet it still lives on. So it really piques my interest as to why you are coming to a fairly small corner of the Mormon/exmormon notch of the internet. What are your true intentions? If it is purely a personal vendetta against John Dehlin, which to me clearly is your motivation, than why come here? What are you trying to stir up?

[Kishkumen]

Rosebud has been coming among us for years to accuse Dehlin. At first, people were cautiously sympathetic. Over time, when her stories did not withstand scrutiny, people became impatient with the endless accusations. Honestly, I think she was surprised that her substance-free threats were not embraced by us. She also liked the ability to post something and link to it on other platforms. She liked to say that she was using the board to post for historical documentation.

[WhistleBlower]

So it really piques my interest as to why you are coming to a fairly small corner of the Mormon/exmormon notch of the internet. What are your true intentions? If it is purely a personal vendetta against John Dehlin, which to me clearly is your motivation, than why come here? What are you trying to stir up?

This is just one of the places where I've chosen to post this information, not really even because I'd like to convince you all of anything. I want John to know that people are tired of his hypocrisy and the fact that he has the gall to speak out for abuse victims is appalling.

I would be more than happy if Open Stories Foundation booted John and was able to continue on with someone who has integrity. If you actually read what I wrote, you will see that I acknowledge that MS and Open Stories Foundation has done very very important work. But it's all clouded by John's lies, manipulation and abuse.

My motivation is to get John to go away. He's not deserving of the influence he has in the progressive Mormon world.

If you want to call that a personal vendetta, fine. I'm sure there were plenty of people who characterized the Harvey Weinstein scandal as a personal vendetta. The film industry is better off now that he's gone. Progressive/ex Mormonism will be better off when John is gone as well. That is my goal.

[Kishkumen]

My motivation is to get John to go away. He's not deserving of the influence he has in the progressive Mormon world.

If you want to call that a personal vendetta, fine. I'm sure there were plenty of people who characterized the Harvey Weinstein scandal as a personal vendetta. The film industry is better off now that he's gone. Progressive/ex Mormonism will be better off when John is gone as well. That is my goal.

Yes, that is the very definition of a personal vendetta. Here's the thing: John Dehlin does not appear to be a Harvey Weinstein. So far I have seen Rosebud's accusations, and everything I know about Rosebud from watching her in multiple venues and from hearing from former associates of hers suggests she is probably a troubled person who needs help way beyond her encounter with John Dehlin.

She reminds me of McKenna Denson. Now, in Denson's case, what was unfortunate is that the man she was most recently accusing really did have a long history of exploitative behavior. Denson's own problems impeded her ability and her lawyer's ability to make a case against the former mission president.

Now, if I start seeing a lot of people coming out with stories of John Dehlin groping them without consent, etc., then I will start to pay a lot closer attention. If all I see is the same old story of Rosebud rehashed endlessly with evolving details and shifting, vague aspects to it, then I will have to default to the suspicion that John unwisely had an affair with a mentally unhealthy woman who has decided to destroy him after being dumped by him.

The core problem here is not that John Dehlin is a squeaky clean great guy, or that he is a Svengali who has his fans bamboozled. The problem is that Rosebud is not a healthy, well balanced, and credible person who was clearly a victim of some kind of rapist or serial abuser. No, it looks more like she is an unhealthy person who unwisely had an affair with a guy who is kind of an incautious dumbass when it comes to mixing his social and professional worlds. He is not particularly professional, in my opinion.

What really cooked this for me in its latest "Whistleblower" incarnation is how Rosebud is now throwing Joanna Brooks under the bus.

Yeah, good luck with that stoooopid play.

[The Stig]

My motivation is to get John to go away. He's not deserving of the influence he has in the progressive Mormon world.

If you want to call that a personal vendetta, fine. I'm sure there were plenty of people who characterized the Harvey Weinstein scandal as a personal vendetta. The film industry is better off now that he's gone. Progressive/ex Mormonism will be better off when John is gone as well. That is my goal.

Yes, that is the very definition of a personal vendetta. Here's the thing: John Dehlin does not appear to be a Harvey Weinstein. So far I have seen Rosebud's accusations, and everything I know about Rosebud from watching her in multiple venues and from hearing from former associates of hers suggests she is probably a troubled person who needs help way beyond her encounter with John Dehlin.

She reminds me of McKenna Denson. Now, in Denson's case, what was unfortunate is that the man she was most recently accusing really did have a long history of exploitative behavior. Denson's own problems impeded her ability and her lawyer's ability to make a case against the former mission president.

Now, if I start seeing a lot of people coming out with stories of John Dehlin groping them without consent, etc., then I will start to pay a lot closer attention. If all I see is the same old story of Rosebud rehashed endlessly with evolving details and shifting, vague aspects to it, then I will have to default to the suspicion that John unwisely had an affair with a mentally unhealthy woman who has decided to destroy him after being dumped by him.

The core problem here is not that John Dehlin is a squeaky clean great guy, or that he is a Svengali who has his fans bamboozled. The problem is that Rosebud is not a healthy, well balanced, and credible person who was clearly a victim of some kind of rapist or serial abuser. No, it looks more like she is an unhealthy person who unwisely had an affair with a guy who is kind of an incautious dumbass when it comes to mixing his social and professional worlds. He is not particularly professional, in my opinion.

What really cooked this for me in its latest "Whistleblower" incarnation is how Rosebud is now throwing Joanna Brooks under the bus.

Yeah, good luck with that stoooopid play.

[¥akaSteelhead]

Long ago I decided John Dehlin was just another of the ever growing lists of "cult of personality" Joseph Smith wannabee types that Mormonism seems to breed at a huge rate, and as such to avoid threads that deal with him. This thread was interesting until it got derailed into JDland.

[Doctor Steuss]

It always kind of makes me chuckle when I see/hear someone referred to as “one of the most prominent ex-Mormon figures,” when I’d wager 99.9% of ex-Mormons have no idea who they are.

[Kishkumen]

Long ago I decided John Dehlin was just another of the ever growing lists of "cult of personality" Joseph Smith wannabee types that Mormonism seems to breed at a huge rate, and as such to avoid threads that deal with him. This thread was interesting until it got derailed into JDland.

Damn that Kwaku for making this about John Dehlin.

[Kishkumen]

It always kind of makes me chuckle when I see/hear someone referred to as “one of the most prominent ex-Mormon figures,” when I’d wager 99.9% of ex-Mormons have no idea who they are.

We need to come up with a term for the tiny fishbowl that is the Mormon Studies/Sunstone/BYU/Mopologist/Bloggernacle world that we are on the fringe of here at DM. We get caught up in it because so many of us are connected to it and drawn to it.