Midgley: BYU President was "a pawn" in FARMS 2012 Ouster

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Symmachus
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Re: Midgley: BYU President was "a pawn" in FARMS 2012 Ouster

Post by Symmachus »

Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:21 am
And the deathbed request Maxwell made to Packer is pure gold!
Oh yes, it's magnificent. It has a certain heroic pathos to it that calls to mind an image like this:

Image

"Remember the FARMS, brother Boyd, the FARMS."
Gadianton wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:09 am
I think Midgley has a low-ranking contact in the 70s, and it's possible that Packer and maybe one or two others higher up were aware and personally invested, but I doubt there was even a discussion about it by the 15 together as a group.
If so, it would be a pointed and typical example of their delusional status-seeking. Everything always has a kernel of the real, but then they water it with their delusions until out of some small truth has sprouted an exaggerated lie. It's characteristic of everything that group has produced from Nibley on, but it's of a piece with how they describe their relationships with the Church hierarchy.

And, by the way, the videos of Church leaders discussing world events a few years back did not leave me with the impression that the relevant member of the 15 would have even known what a podcast is. The Greg Smith piece would have been unintelligible to him.

"Brother Gong," asked Elder Packer with all the elegance of a sneezing camel, "do we sell copies of the Facebook at Deseret Book?"
Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:21 am
I agree with you on the removal of DCP from the Review. But the hit piece is something I am prepared to believe more GAs knew about. If Oaks bothered to call out Sunstone to millions of members who had no clue up to that point what that was, surely they were all peeing their pants about a popular podcast with many more thousands of downloads than Sunstone subscriptions.
I always had the impression that each of these guys have their own little pet projects and concerns where they have some limited autonomy to dilate. In that view of things, Oaks, a former professional intellectual who had been associated with Dialogue in its early years, was probably much more interested in the sort of stuff to do with Sunstone and its direction in the 80s and early 90s than the others, just as Packer, the CES commissar, had a deep interest in all things to do with that department of the Church. One could think of other examples. The mural on the crumbling wall of Midgley's mind is probably not all that far off in its general shapes: Maxwell probably really did care a lot about FARMS and the eponymous institute that grew out of it and probably went to bat for it/them, and maybe he expressed that to Packer in some fashion, though the death-bed scene is as ridiculous as it sounds. In my speculation, though, they were on borrowed time once they lost their patron. Packer was no intellectual like Maxwell, and I really doubt that he had much interest in what the FARMS people did. He was more like McConkie, who openly denigrated the study of ancient languages and antiquities for the purpose of scriptural investigation: we have the "standard works," so what do you need the learning of men for? Packer was with McConkie on the committee that produced the LDS edition of the Bible, which isn't exactly notable for its scholarly apparatus. And while there probably is some rule or other to the effect that Midgley outlines, it just seems unlikely that such a rule would have anything to do with personnel decisions, which is what the MI shakeup was. It's not like Peterson was an apostate being fired from BYU or anything that drastic or high profile.
Last edited by Symmachus on Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Midgley: BYU President was "a pawn" in FARMS 2012 Ouster

Post by Gadianton »

Kishkumen wrote:But the hit piece is something I am prepared to believe more GAs knew about. If Oaks bothered to call out Sunstone to millions of members who had no clue up to that point what that was, surely they were all peeing their pants about a popular podcast with many more thousands of downloads than Sunstone subscriptions.
Absolutely. The bit about the then-president saying the Brethren wanted to deal with it in their own way I'm inclined to believe. What do you make of this:
Mr. Midgley wrote: Then the then President of the University sent a memo, a copy of which I have, saying that he did not approve or agree with any of Dehlin's opinions, but he thought that the Brethren wanted to deal with Dehlin in their own time
The then-president wasn't an incompetent person. What do you make of him saying "he thought" the Brethren wanted to deal with..?

The possibilities that I see:

1) Midgley is inventing the "he thought" bit, and the memo isn't uncertain.
2) Then-president was vague; he knew what was going on, he's not supposed to say, but he can't exactly not say anything.

The possibility I have trouble accepting:

1) Then-president haplessly just "thought", perhaps based on other public figures who have tussled with the Church, that the Brethren probably wanted to deal with it so, hey, assuming they're looking into it, let's let them do it.

That's what LM wants you to believe, that then-president is just this guy without any real ties to the top like he has; putting around the green, guessing, and shrugging shoulders.
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Re: Midgley: BYU President was "a pawn" in FARMS 2012 Ouster

Post by Gadianton »

The image Symmachus supplied to show the charge passing down from Maxwell to Packer is epic. Hopefully SP Everybody Wang Chung drops by to properly annotate it.

Maxwell's infamous charge has always struck me as a proof-text they get way too much mileage out of. I mean, besides him saying on that one occasion "no uncontested slam dunks," is there a history of Maxwell insisting the critics get their due?

I once knew a guy who knew the guy, and I've heard a good share of Maxwell stories, and I just don't see it. The same source also had a degree a familiarity with Boyd, and there's no question about him being every bit as nasty, backwards, and vengeful as portrayed. If he hadn't been handed a charge to take the war to critics, then he'd have invented one.
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Re: Midgley: BYU President was "a pawn" in FARMS 2012 Ouster

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Louis Midgley wrote:But the Brethren had read Greg Smith's essay. I sent the one who supervised the Apostolic committees a copy of Greg's essay, and others did the same thing. We were told that Greg's essay was far too long and detailed. This was true, but no one had an idea of how to make it shorter.
The follow-up letter went straight to the point:
Dear Brethren,

We have our carving knives at the ready for Dehlin. The More Good Foundation is paying us by the column inch so we can see no practical way of shortening it. We will run the story regardless since it is too good of a hit piece to waste. You will thank us in years to come when we rid you of this troublesome Melchizedek Priest.

Yours in faith and skullduggery,

Louis Q. Midgley, PhD
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Re: Midgley: BYU President was "a pawn" in FARMS 2012 Ouster

Post by Dr LOD »

Gadianton wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:09 am
Boy, did I need that after a hard day of work. Laughs from start to finish. Others have quoted the best lines already.
Symmachus wrote:It is just hilarious to see Midgley's behind-the-scenes account here, because it shows everyone on his side of things to be completely clueless.
This is what I'm always thinking with they retell this story. If "the brethren" collectively were on their side, then it never would have happened, or worse case scenario, it would have been quickly reversed.

I think Midgley has a low-ranking contact in the 70s, and it's possible that Packer and maybe one or two others higher up were aware and personally invested, but I doubt there was even a discussion about it by the 15 together as a group.
In conversations with some of my contacts I try to pry out bits of information of the great Purge of 2012. The narrative that John Dehlin floats out there is pretty accurate. A group consisting of Marlin Jensen, Samuelson, Holland and Nelson were the GA's involved with the change. The Dehlin article was one of many many reasons.

What Midgley is talking about is what he and other FARMS people were doing trying to mitigate what they knew was coming down the road, but still can't admit, that their style of apologetics was not needed anymore (at least in an officially sanctioned form). At that point they only had Boyd Packer, and possibly Oak's in their corner. Midgley keeps trying to rewrite history, but it really wasn't as close as he would like to think.
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Re: Midgley: BYU President was "a pawn" in FARMS 2012 Ouster

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

DCP has gone on record numerous times stating BYU had nothing to do with his firing. He has also gone on record several times that the Brethren were completely unaware and had nothing to do with his firing.

Well, it looks like Midgley or DCP is lying again. Take your pick. They both have extensive and proven track records for dishonesty.
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Re: Midgley: BYU President was "a pawn" in FARMS 2012 Ouster

Post by Gabriel »

Symmachus wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:17 am
Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:21 am
And the deathbed request Maxwell made to Packer is pure gold!
Oh yes, it's magnificent. It has a certain heroic pathos to it that calls to mind an image like this:

Image

"Remember the FARMS, brother Boyd, the FARMS."
I always thought that he had said "Rosebud" before he died.

Whoops. I'm posting on the wrong thread. Sorry. My bad.
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