Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Meadowchik]

JP’s argument above that Joanna really had no intention to hire Rosebud back is just Rosebud’s paranoia speaking, and JP *should* know better than to take Rosebud’s mind-reading of Joanna Brooks seriously.

Wait, didn't one of the guests on the Mormonism Live podcast say the Open Stories Foundation had no intention of hiring back Rosebud?

[Dwight]

I am now listening to the interview and making notes. However I would like to circle back to an earlier topic of the newly created YouTube accounts that posted on the Mormonism Live. Specifically I engaged there with one, with the name Monica Adams. It is amazing that Monica makes the same claim JP has that John Dehlin went on KSL and lied. I couldn't find the interview, but then I was googling John Dehlin KSL. Now JP is linking to it here, and it's with Bob Evans of Fox13, now JP was an employee of Open Stories Foundation and John, and I gather lives somewhere close to DC, not sure if he spent time in Utah, and it's been just shy of 14 years since I moved from there, but I don't think anyone would mix up Bob Evans mainstay of Fox13 with KSL.

John: Any accusations of sexual harassment are completely baseless (proven lie...at BEST any objective observer would conclude John skirted the line)

John: I'm faithful to my wife! (proven lie)

Peanut gallery: Look, it's not like we worship John, it's just that no amount of historical evidence will ever convince us that John Dehlin is a liar and a fraud.

Now I will put on my Mormon legalistic God hat. In the interview John says "I am faithful to my wife". He doesn't say or imply that he has always been faithful. Bob isn't asking him about Rosebud and John is completely denying it. This isn't even on the same level of Joseph Smith's "what a thing it is to be accused of having seven wives when I can only see one". So if John Dehlin is faithful to his wife Jan 27, 2020 then he isn't lying, I don't even think he is being dishonest. Otherwise if we are going to have this standard then JP I hope if you are asked if you poo your pants that you merely answer "yes" since you undoubtedly did so as a baby. JP are you Monica Adams on the ML YouTube comments? Really strange you would use the same wording and details as Monica. Why did you choose a female name? Do you identify as female?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

It’s weird to me how James Patterson can accuse John Dehlin of being a liar and a fraud, but creating multiple sockpuppets to push his narrative isn’t dishonest and fraudulent? The level of self-unawareness is astonishing.

- Doc

[drumdude]

You guys don't understand, Rosebud doesn't have any power. John Dehlin holds all the power. Rosebud has convinced James Patterson, Kate Kelley, Matt Long, ect that John Dehlin is a liar and manipulator so that makes it fair game for them to do the same to John Dehlin.

I mean, Matt Long mentioned Warren Jeffs and "Secular Mormonism influencers" (John Dehlin) in the same breath. The implication is that John Dehlin's affair with Rosebud is essentially the same pattern of Mormon abuse as Warren Jeffs raping 14 year old girls in the West Texas FLDS Temple.

I suppose they think that associating John Dehlin with pedophile cult leaders will somehow win over public opinion towards Rosebud and remove John's immense power that he wields over what they believe is the cult of ex-Mormonism. I know we live in post "me-too" era where we're all more sensitive to sexual harassment, but that's just completely unreasonable in my opinion.

by the way the "John Dehlin is an alleged pedophile" website is still up.
https://rejohndehlinmormonstoriesosfetc ... bler-team/

[Lem]

Now I will put on my Mormon legalistic God hat. In the interview John says "I am faithful to my wife". He doesn't say or imply that he has always been faithful....

Faint praise, indeed. I'm sure Dehlin's wife is comforted.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

by the way the "John Dehlin is an alleged pedophile" website is still up.
https://rejohndehlinmormonstoriesosfetc ... bler-team/

Man, that is really slanderous. A statement from the site:

Ultimately, absolutely, and unequivocally, the contents of this WP Site are solely the author’s opinions and allegations which are secondary to PA West’s experiences in real life/face to face with John Dehlin (she alleging he is a sexual predator/harasser/groomer-children too), et al. in addition to research, public records (alleging business/financial improprieties; unearthed secondary to information/input from individuals who publically posted on Facebook in May 2017 (Including but not limited to: John Dehlin, Kate Kelly, Esq., Dr. Kristy Money, Ph.D., Joanna J. Smith).

Our research since May 2017, back to at least 2010 to present day, the actions of John Dehlin, Ryan Millencam, Natasha Helfer-Parker, MFT, Dan Wotherspoon, Ph.D. (the cousin of Rosebud), Craig Woodfield, CPA, Christine J. Clark, Lee Stowell, Roger McOmber, Amy Shoemaker Grubbs, Gina Colvin, Nadine McComb Hansen, Attorney, Kim Sandberg Turner, Steve Holbrook, and several others (have led author(s) to pursue subsequent research, review of public records regarding the alleged financial improprieties and sexual harassment allegations against Open Stories Foundation/Dehlin/Mormon Stories et al (including ENBALERS) that now span, we contend, almost 10 years, a decade. We contend what we have discovered so far is not all inclusive, just scratching the surface.

Any allegation to exclude as Hearsay will be countered with referring you to exceptions to Hearsay. If you want to allege defamation or libel, the bottom line: truth is an absolute defense. Also, “Hearsay” at least in California can be investigated by governing authorities. Ask a Detective.

If anyone wants to allege copyright infringement, contact author via this blog site OR public email: Sunshineonamormonfaithcrisis@gmail.com
Author(s) asserts too, if documents or text, Facebook posts, Emails (Emails are publications per a Mormon Church Attorney prior to her resigning from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to author “PA”), are involved/implicated/used in “crimes”: criminal & there is no copyright protection, civil, administrative law (& we contend there is no statute of limitations in Administrative Law);. If you disagree, contact us at SunshineonaMormonFaithCrisis@gmail.com. This can always be argued by attorneys in any litigation.

Anyone have any idea who the "we" might be? Someone or some people in CA?

- Doc

[Aristotle Smith]

--

[Dr Exiled]

August 2011 - John invites Anne to introduce the guest at the next conference, she believes only to seduce her. She asks John not to stay at her hotel. John sees her anyway she consents to let him in and they had a naked sexual interaction.

Can I nominate "naked sexual interaction" as the most Mormon description ever?

I like it. I also like Kishkumen's "levi lovin.' "

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Up front, and again, I just want to state that I think John Dehlin is a self-serving narcissist who's exploiting the Mormon and ex-Mormon demographic for personal gain. Does 'celebrity therapist' make any damned sense in a not insane world? Not a fan. The cult of personality that Mormons and ex-Mormon engage in is damned weird.

Anyway, what's weird going back and listening to the intro is this guy's claim that this was a 'cognitive interview', even going as far as insinuating it's a 'forensic interview' which is absurd. There's nothing "cognitive" nor "forensic" about this "interview". It's a three-hour open mic session where she clearly massages her narrative to fall in line with her threats she outlined in Option 2. Whether or not this guy (he's so unimportant to me that I'm not going to bother rewinding and trudging through his opening nonsense statements to figure it out) lends legitimacy to Rosebud's claim with his opening salvo is beside the point. What we have is Rosebud's fantastical tale of a innocent nave totally under the spell of a master manipulator, which is absurd. This is a woman scorned, she clearly outlined her intent in Option 2, was pissed the Open Stories Foundation didn't let her take control of their operation, and has gone about carrying out the threats made in Option 2. James Patterson claims in one of his Reddit posts that Option 2 was her being cheeky - I think the “F” not. She's clearly doing her best to carry out those threats. REMEMBER: THE ONLY REASON WHY WE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS IS BECAUSE ROSEBUD MADE IT OUR BUSINESS.

Moving on.

@5:35 - It's so funny that Rosebud outed herself, repeatedly, and then likes to play the innocent little lamb asking to remain anon. This shifting between anonymity and revealing herself, only to blame others for her 'doxxing' and 'outing' is so damned superficial. GMAFB. How do supersimps like James Patterson fall for this crap?

@5:50 - Rosebud is purportedly in contact with attorneys. She doesn't have a public platform? She literally used MDB as a public platform to make her case, she can use any number of public platforms to make her case, and in fact is using a public platform with this recording to make her case. It's like she lives in a constant mental contradiction to make herself the victim. She even has this ex-cop narrator feeling sorry for her because he makes reference to her being a poor ol' single mom, because that makes sense? What does being a single mother have to do with anything? The way she's working her single motherhood to victimize herself (gee, I guess naked canoodling with a dude in a hotel room was a monumentally bad choice, but we should feel sorry for her because she's a single mom? ) is just another tactic to make herself look powerless because she's playing up the power dynamic - a sort of David vs. Goliath myth she's created.

I have crap to do, I'll be back to provide crappy commentary as I make my way through this horse crap.

- Doc

PS - I can't believe John Dehlin's wife didn't divorce him. There must be some form of dependency there because the idea of a spouse laying around nake with someone else and gettin' their freak on is bananapants intolerable. I don't know how she stuck around.

[Dwight]

Record Established - I had most of the afternoon (it's dinner time in Sweden) that I could listen while I babysat something for work, but I only managed to get to 1:15:00. I will post my notes here and come back.

[Intro by Matt Long]

Matt still seems to be in Rosebud's corner and really throws Glenn Ostlund and Infants on Thrones under the bus. I guess taking money for something you do is really distasteful if it is podcasting, but not if it is lawyering.

Matt expresses his ignorance and takes Rosebud at her word that John decided to doxx her for some reason. I haven't gotten any pushback or countering that John is the source of doxxing her. Kwaku and Kate Kelly doxxed Rosebud and started this current episode. I don't think Kwaku or KK is doing John Dehlin any favors. RFM gave his reasons for using Rosebud's real name as she had publicly posted under it on Facebook, it was only the next day after the ML episode that she asked that she be referred to by the psuedonym in connection to this. This is after the ML episode in which she is named. Kate Kelly then deletes her tweet doxxing Rosebud. I have seen no evidence that John Dehlin would be stirring this up and defending himself or that ML Bill Reel and RFM would've tackled this except for Kwaku and Kate Kelly. Since Matt is unaware of this and unwilling to find anything out himself and just take Rosebud's version I am going to take what he has to say with a pound of salt. If John used the patriarchy or whatever means to get Kwaku to doxx Rosebud with the help of KK then we can go back to him being the source of all that is wrong.

[I will also not as an aside that the What We Know Pod though kind of defunct Matt Long is still squarely in Rosebud's corner, he also has disdain for exmo celebrities like John Dehlin, and himself, but Rosebud seems to have wanted that and she escapes criticism for it.]

I'll put some questions here, RFM did John Dehlin use the patriarchy or otherwise instruct you to doxx Rosebud on ML? If Rosebud had posted her request to continue to use the pseudonym before the episode and you had the chance to read it would you have respected that? I think you are a reasonable respectful person who would have, but I'll let you answer for yourself if you want. I also don't think it is unreasonable if someone pierces their own pseudonym that you might think it is safe to refer to the public figure.

I am disappointed in Matt here. He tries to play as an objective observer with only maybe some bias, but how can you try a case without hearing from both sides? I've gone and read Rosebud's stuff, I have read her allies stuff, I have read John's stuff, I may not always get it right, it's why I am here putting my thoughts out there to get them challenged so I can maybe understand what happened here.

[Interview starts] thanks to drumdude I will not cover the exact same ground, but pull out some things of interest to me.

22:25 [March 2011] This was kind of an original idea [to create groups for exmos]

/r/exmormon was started in 2009, John Dehlin joined a forum that I belonged to that had a bunch of progressive Mormons in 2006. Every generation thinks they are the first to invent oral sex.

31:30 Rosebud helped setup the conferences to empower people and here are believers and unbelievers and gays together and is a "huge success". Rosebud implies that this is in part due to the shared values that she developed.

That forum John Dehlin joined in 2006 had TBMs, exmos, nevermos, gay Mormons, etc. all discussing religion, politics, arts, entertainment, etc.

38:33 John has a lot of ideas … his ideas are all over the place and he doesn't have enough focus.

She focuses a lot on John being unable to deliver on ideas and she had focus and purpose and had to prevent John from sabotaging the work she was trying to do. She again focuses on the success of a conference she put together. She is invested in this work and successful. His sabotage is cause he isn't sure if something will be financially viable.

John realized that gmail may exist in the future so he was super careful to not let her have documentation. However he knew Facebook messages might not last forever so he maybe used that for the bad stuff, and she only has what she copied and emailed herself to her gmail.

[47:07] John Dehlin is only worried about making money and this is his reason for doing things.

There no allowance that you can't have a conference if you can't pay for the venue and things like that.

[57:47] John is a narcissist and everything is about him.

Distasteful, but not a crime.

[1:00:53] She felt like she needed to protect him cause the movement needed him.

Apparently the patriarchy made her do it. Exmormonism is bigger than Dehlin and Mormon Stories, but she seems oblivious to this.

[1:04:12] Apparently PIV is necessary for excommunication. March 2012 she wants intercourse. He couldn't get an erection, so that was due to the games he liked to play.

No allowance that maybe when faced with doing the deed his Mormon upbringing got to him. I don't know why he couldn't or his intentions, but her interpretation that it is just cause he was more interested in the game and pursuing isn't the only credible one. It happens even without the moral quandaries or Mormonism involved, but certainly I know exmo middle aged men that have had trouble getting an erection especially in situations that are contrary to the church's programming.

Doc has some great points ^