Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[jpatterson]

Also he seems to believe that because John Dehlin engaged in 'faux sexting' the day before that John Dehlin isn't capable of complex wants and thought. John Dehlin actions must be black and white, there can be no grey area for JP. Either way I've taken some time to read through the email and this is what I have found.

Actually, if you actually read my post, which was directed at consig, I was using John's email to demonstrate that consig's black-and-white argument is myopic because it ignores the complexity of John Dehlin's mindset.

Consig wants to make this a clear case of Rosebud actually sexually harassing John Dehlin because of the texts where she asks him if he'll have sex with her. In his argument, Rosebud is the aggressor and John is the victim.

The Aug 10 throws that argument out the window. It's littered with complexity, contradiction even but none of it in a way that demonstrates consig's argument.

[jpatterson]

Losing time, losing relevance . . . . Being a loser by wasting your time attacking someone you hate when you could be doing something productive for yourself in your own life.

Plenty of losing.

Relevance where? Here? Don't make me laugh.

[Kishkumen]

Actually, if you actually read my post, which was directed at consig, I was using John's email to demonstrate that consig's black-and-white argument is myopic because it ignores the complexity of John Dehlin's mindset.

Consig wants to make this a clear case of Rosebud actually sexually harassing John Dehlin because of the texts where she asks him if he'll have sex with her. In his argument, Rosebud is the aggressor and John is the victim.

The Aug 10 throws that argument out the window. It's littered with complexity, contradiction even but none of it in a way that demonstrates consig's argument.

Yes, complex, messy, but so long as it leads people to think John Dehlin is a bad guy who is hypocritically getting away with bad things while pretending to be a good guy, then at that point it all becomes very simple. John bad man. Rosebud innocent victim and heroic survivor.

Simple.

[Kukulkan]

Also he seems to believe that because John Dehlin engaged in 'faux sexting' the day before that John Dehlin isn't capable of complex wants and thought. John Dehlin actions must be black and white, there can be no grey area for JP. Either way I've taken some time to read through the email and this is what I have found.

Actually, if you actually read my post, which was directed at consig, I was using John's email to demonstrate that consig's black-and-white argument is myopic because it ignores the complexity of John Dehlin's mindset.

Consig wants to make this a clear case of Rosebud actually sexually harassing John Dehlin because of the texts where she asks him if he'll have sex with her. In his argument, Rosebud is the aggressor and John is the victim.

The Aug 10 throws that argument out the window. It's littered with complexity, contradiction even but none of it in a way that demonstrates consig's argument.

Ok? I am not consig, and that is not my argument...

[Kishkumen]

Relevance where? Here? Don't make me laugh.

Oh come now, JP. Your silly deflections are so transparent. You are in it for the noble cause of taking down the bad man John Dehlin! Virtue has its own reward, eh? You are doing this for the noble cause of those people whose power-plays in small companies backfire and turn into revenge stories.

I'll admit, there isn't much relevance here, but you are fighting for it tooth and claw!

[The Stig]

I know Kishkumen in real life; your assessment couldn't be more wrong.

I know that when challenged to educate himself on the complexities of sexual violence, he scoffs and deflects. As I said, that tells me all I need to know

Well, your "all I need to know" shortcut is fatally flawed. I have reason to believe Kish knows plenty about the "complexities." The problem seems to be he is unwilling to use those "complexities" as the blunt instrument you are to beat John Dehlin over the head. That's not a Kish problem, that's a you problem.

[Kukulkan]

Also, JP when you inevitably make this into a motion picture can I please be an extra? I don't even want any lines.

[jpatterson]

Ok? I am not consig, and that is not my argument...

Yes, but you repurposed my post and its arguments for an entirely different argument. Context is important.

[dastardly stem]

I think the record shows Rosebud got fired because she continued to ask for a sexual and romantic relationship after John Dehlin refused.

Not so sure about this claim. From the Open Stories Foundation side of the argument, they did not intend to fire her. If it was about her continued effort to pursue their relationship, then they would have fired her, instead of offering her to resign and be brought back on. Rosebud's case, on this front would all hinge on whether she was correct about whether they really did not intend to bring her back on as a contractor.

If Rosebud had ceased and desisted as John Dehlin asked, there is no reason to suspect the board would ever have gotten involved.

Rosebud could still have been working for Open Stories Foundation doing the thing she loved if she had just backed down when asked and cooled her jets.

Sexual harassment can be a two-way street.

I agree. Its the nature of it, sometimes, in that the woman is seen far more as a victim than a man. It seems apparent as this all came to a head, he wanted it to end and she did not. To be fair, and I kind of hate this point, throughout their relationship, it seems they each took turns of saying we should end only to see the other continue the pursuit, keeping it alive. I hate to say that because it reveals how much I've paid attention.

How is it reasonable to say she harassed him, when it seemed to be the nature of their relationship?

The only thing that comes closest to harassment, as I see it, is he seemed to orchestrate her termination because of their affair.

[jpatterson]

Also, JP when you inevitably make this into a motion picture can I please be an extra? I don't even want any lines.

Nah. Very soon I will go back to forgetting this place exists and happily live my life not caring about anything tangentially related to Mormonism.