Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

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Doctor Scratch
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Re: Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Gadianton wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:07 pm
Dr. Scratch,

In your professional opinion, how might the Witnesses film affect prospects of Eternal Salvation for the producers?

Did you know that it's going to be released in 34 states? Did you know that Billboards are going up to advertise it? Everything about it is as if it were a commissioned piece from the Brethren, except for the fact that it isn't. But that's how it's going to be received by the rest of the world.

If it does well, what's the outcome of that? On the one hand, the Brethren might be very pleased. If it brings in baptisms, then I don't think it's absurd to say that an additional planet in the Eternities is in order for those who made it successful. But what if it bombs and people laugh at it, and it makes the church look silly? What shall the Brethren think then? How happy are they going to be?
The Witnesses movie is definitely risky. I can definitely envision a scenario where the Mopologists wind up being "victims of their own success." If it eclipses Meet the Mormons, for example, then the Brethren will most likely step in to take over: no more filmmaking for DCP. Or, he will be "absorbed" into the Church's filmmaking arm. It would be similar to what happened to FARMS. As soon at the COB caught wind of the fact that they were angling for $7,000,000+ for their Ziggurat, they stepped in and insisted that it become part of BYU. But that's really pretty unlikely. I think that, instead, the movie will perform modestly at best. It's not screening on all that many screens, and the majority of them are in Idaho and Utah. I think they are hoping for repeat viewings, but again: it's not like this is The Avengers or Star Wars. The only people who will watch it multiple times are the dozen or so hardcore fanboys who post comments at SeN.

But to your point: What if it's a disaster? So, I don't think it's going to be a full-blown disaster, unless there is some scandal attached to it--i.e., if the mainstream press picks up on some of DCP's racist comments or something like that. Instead, I think that critical reviews will shrug about it, saying that it's a reasonably well-made film that is nonetheless propaganda for believing Mormons, so who cares? But--and it's a big "if"--if it is a true disaster, I don't think that Eternal Salvation is on the chopping block. Instead, I think it would just be further alienation of the Mopologists--less favors from the Brethren, and that sort of thing.

Meanwhile, I guess the Maui air must be giving Dr. Peterson a massive case of hubris, because now he's imagining that the stupid Witnesses movie will cure world hunger:
DCP wrote:I would be perfectly happy, of course, if Witnesses were to somehow cure cancer or put an end to poverty. It won't, though. But here's something for that critic to contemplate: Scores of studies indicate that religious people tend to give more to charity – more money, more time, more effort – than secularists do. And they don't only give more to their churches, synagogues, temples, and mosques. They give more to non-religious charities, as well. So perhaps our critic should be hoping that Witnesses will reach and persuade huge audiences that, becoming more religious as a result, will commit themselves more fully to charity – thus helping to put an end to thirst, hunger, disease, and disability. And might Witnesses be able to give comfort to the afflicted? I expect so, although that wasn't the specific purpose for which it was created: Religious faith demonstrably provides comfort in times of sorrow and distress. If Witnesses aids anybody to gain or to strengthen faith, it will thereby enable that faith to give comfort when comfort is needed.
So, are they arranging for screenings of Witnesses in the COVID wards in India right now? You know, to "give comfort to the afflicted"? What a joke. And about these "scores of studies"--post them. Let's see these studies. The last time someone issued a call for sources on this, DCP produced a study showing that *tithing* was being "counted" as a "charitable donation." Well, if the Plan of Salvation is at stake, then you are not really giving it as "charity," are you?

I'll tell you what: if Dr. Peterson is willing to put up links to "scores of studies" (and since 1 score = 20, let's set the bar low, at 40, so 40 studies), and if these studies legitimately prove his point, then I will personally arrange for "Witnesses" to be screened in my city. What do you say, Dr. Peterson?
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Sledge
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Re: Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

Post by Sledge »

Two quick comments, if you would so allow:

1.) I’m curious whether OP believes in an afterlife? I am a very liberal Mormon, so while I do believe, I also recognize that it’s nature is not well known. (I hope there is an afterlife.)

2.) In Mormonism, no one—including the brethren—determine who gets eternal salvation. Only Heavenly Father and Jesus judge that. So I don’t think that is a concern for the Witnesses film makers.
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Re: Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Sledge wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:38 pm
Only Heavenly Father and Jesus judge that.
According to a Google search, going back 50,000 years, there have been 108,000,000,000 humans that have lived and died. So, how does that work, practically speaking? Do we just have karma scores tallying up on an iStone and we’re blipped into a state that’s commensurate with our score? Or does God the Father and God the Son literally do an individual quantum-state-review with everyone to knock out the task? Good Lord. Could you imagine Jesus having to sit there and review the life of Crag the Caveman from 27,000 years ago, and he’s watching Crag bash in Thule’s skull because Thule took Crag’s shell necklace which gave him special privileges with Mog’s coterie?

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Sledge” wrote:
2.) In Mormonism, no one—including the brethren—determine who gets eternal salvation. Only Heavenly Father and Jesus judge that. So I don’t think that is a concern for the Witnesses film makers.
Actually, the Brethren (who speak for HF and JC) will be judges in Israel. Also, it’s Mormon doctrine and literally taught in every single General Conference going back 150 years that one must obey your priesthood leaders/Brethren to be in good standing before the Lord. It’s certainly a requirement for entry into the temple.
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Re: Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

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Everybody Wang Chung wrote: Also, it’s Mormon doctrine and literally taught in every single General Conference going back 150 years that one must obey your priesthood leaders/Brethren to be in good standing before the Lord. It’s certainly a requirement for entry into the temple.
No, that simply is not true. None of the temple interview questions ask whether you are obedient to priesthood holders. The only person who stands between you and god is you.
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Re: Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

“Sledge” wrote:
No, that simply is not true. None of the temple interview questions ask whether you are obedient to priesthood holders. The only person who stands between you and god is you.
Really Sledge? Let’s look at one of the recommend questions:

“Do you sustain the president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local leaders of the Church?”
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

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Re: Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

Post by kairos »

On the Book of Mormon lands tours, I a nevermo went on such a tour
With my wife when it seemed the LGT theory was dominating and Rod Meldrum had not come on the scene as a “disrupto r”. On the tour , Fun for Less, Michael Wilcox was the educator. He tried to make connections between the ruins and the Book of Mormon but it was difficult- for example he would say “ I can see Samuel the Lamanite on yonder wall blah blah”.
To me it was all BS. Finally in an aside I said to Michael. “ I can’t see any even small indication of signs/ evidences of Christianity being anywhere in any of these ruins/sites and it seems weird that the kings had names like Jaguar 15 .
Wilcox said “ I can’t see any signs of Jewish- Christianity populations existing there. “
So as then is now the tours there are really scams and secondarily the Rodster is disrupting at a pretty significant level- in Costco herein Phoenix Meldrum’s annotated Book of Mormon
Hardback book is big seller.
DCP educating on the LGT Book of Mormon lands continues the scam!
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Sledge
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Re: Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Really Sledge? Let’s look at one of the recommend questions:

“Do you sustain the president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local leaders of the Church?”
Thank you for supporting my argument. “Sustain” and “obey” are not even close to the same thing. Even if they were (and I will not grant that; they are very different), you can answer howeverthehell you want. It’s between you and god.
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Re: Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

Post by malkie »

Sledge wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:51 pm
Everybody Wang Chung wrote: Also, it’s Mormon doctrine and literally taught in every single General Conference going back 150 years that one must obey your priesthood leaders/Brethren to be in good standing before the Lord. It’s certainly a requirement for entry into the temple.
No, that simply is not true. None of the temple interview questions ask whether you are obedient to priesthood holders. The only person who stands between you and god is you.
Perhaps not 100% definitive, but pretty suggestive (my emphasis):
  • In his article entitled “Joseph Smith Among the Prophets” printed in the June 1994 issue of “Ensign” magazine, Mormon writer Robert L. Millet quoted second LDS Prophet Brigham Young, who, in 1859, stated, “From the day that the priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up things of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are — I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent” (Journal of Discourses 7:238. See also Search These Commandments, 1984, pg. 133).
https://www.mrm.org/no-salvation-without-joseph-smith
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Sledge
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Re: Have the Mopologists Ever Feared that their Eternal Salvation Could be Taken Away?

Post by Sledge »

Perhaps not 100% definitive, but pretty suggestive (my emphasis):
  • In his article entitled “Joseph Smith Among the Prophets” printed in the June 1994 issue of “Ensign” magazine, Mormon writer Robert L. Millet quoted second LDS Prophet Brigham Young, who, in 1859, stated, “From the day that the priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up things of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are — I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent” (Journal of Discourses 7:238. See also Search These Commandments, 1984, pg. 133).
https://www.mrm.org/no-salvation-without-joseph-smith
Brigham Young said a lot of non doctrinal things, this is well known (citing MRM...really?)
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