Chewbarker cleans house!

[Gadianton]

On a recent Witnesses thread, the relatively new Patheos community member, Chewbarker, responds:

The whole polygamy thing is a tragedy. The lies, deceit and betrayal that Emma suffered through is incomprehensible.

Also, polygamy took the life of Joseph Smith. If Joseph hadn't ordered the destruction of the printing press of the Nauvoo Expositor he would not have been arrested and killed at Carthage. The Expositor was exposing Joseph's polygamy and for whatever reason, Joseph couldn't allow that. I hope that future generations can learn from Joseph Smith that honesty is the best policy.

A great point: How will the movie handle the culpability of Mormonism in its persecution?

The usual suspects just aren't prepared to deal with this important question.

Seriously?? That last sentence sounds like it was written by a 6 year old in a book review about an honest puppy dog. I laughed out loud when I read it

Doesn't it sound a lot like this sentence? (you can figure out the story from here)

I do not know that the hotel ever missed the ashtray, but the man who took it missed his peace of mind for more than a quarter of a century and finally ended up paying far more for the stolen tray than it was worth. Yes, honesty is the best policy.

Perhaps Phillip hasn't read the Ensign, the New Era, or the Friend? There are dozens of similar "honesty is the best policy" talks from Church leaders.

+2 Chewbarker!

Epic fail for Phillip.

STOP

This is the same person who didn't think Chauvin had to stop because Floyd used a counterfeit 20$ bill earlier that day.

+1 Chewbarker.

You have established over time that you lack credibility. Nothing you say is worthy of consideration.

Interesting. We don't think you folks have much credibility either, but we are willing to listen fairly and respond. Most likely, Ideeho has no idea whatsoever how to respond.

+1 Chewbarker.

There is literally nothing wrong with Smith's polygamy. Also, Smith did not order the destruction of the printing press. The city council did but don't let facts get in the way of your jihad.

http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/nau ... ositor.htm

The bulk of the Expositor's single issue was devoted to criticism of Smith, founder of the Latter Day Saint movement and the mayor of Nauvoo. After two days of consultation, Smith and the Nauvoo city council voted on June 10, 1844 to declare the paper a public nuisance, and ordered the paper's printing press destroyed.[2] The town marshal carried out the order that evening.[3] These actions generated considerable disturbance, and culminated in Smith's assassination by a vigilante group while he was in legal custody and awaiting a trial in nearby Carthage.

Smith was the sole religious authority on the earth and the one who revealed polygamy, he was the mayor, he consulted with the council, and he carried out the order. Gee, let's think really hard here, LD. I'll bet you don't think the LDS Church leaders had anything to do with Prop 8 either, right?

+1 Chewbarker. Well, at least LD attempted to respond.

Chewbarker" is a cute handle, but "Barkchewer" would work quite well, too. One of the things that I appreciate about Brigham Young, is that early on, relatively speaking, he realized that secrecy and deceit about the practice of polygamy had to stop

As you say, the deceit about polygamy had to stop. +1 Chewbarker, +1 Lane also

From the standpoint of mortal life or this world -- which, I think, was the focus of LaneWolfley's comment -- it appears to be over.

Postmortem plural marriage shouldn't bother people very much who don't believe in any life at all postmortem.

Postmortem harems for suicide bombers shouldn't bother people who don't believe in any life at all postmoderm. People who don't believe in predestination at all shouldn't be bothered by the doctrines of Calvinism, in which they take offence to.

+1 Chewbarker. -2 Daniel Peterson, for having a much higher education than his lackeys, yet still unable to be consistent.

Final score: Chewbarker 7, SeN apologists: -1

[drumdude]

I love that "Postmortem plural marriage shouldn't bother people very much who don't believe in any life at all postmortem."

I remember they tried to use that logic with the Holocaust Baptisms too. Didn't work out too well!

[Bought Yahoo]

Chewbarker makes a good point.

An apostle, or future apostle, married my grandfather to three sisters he brought back from his mission in 1906. My grandmother was so freaking angry. My grandfather was later excommunicated over it. But the apostle?

[Bought Yahoo]

Great grandfather and mother.

[Doctor Scratch]

Wow... this thing is starting to come apart at the seams, and you can just sense the Mopologists' desperation. The polygamy issue has potentially profound ramifications for "Witnesses." The Executive Producer boasted repeatedly that they were committed to "not shying away from difficult issues." Meanwhile, didn't the Director recently get quoted as saying that the film is "based on a true story"? Well, just remember that one of the opening title cards in Fargo is also, "Based on a true story." Perhaps they mean it in the same sense?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

DanielPeterson > Butthead

From the standpoint of mortal life or this world -- which, I think, was the focus of LaneWolfley's comment -- it appears to be over.

Postmortem plural marriage shouldn't bother people very much who don't believe in any life at all postmortem.

Someone should ask Mr. Peterson if his wife ever expressed any thoughts over the matter with him.

- Doc

[Gadianton]

I remember they tried to use that logic with the Holocaust Baptisms too. Didn't work out too well!

indeed. I'd totally forgotten about that one. Had it come to mind, it would have been -3 instead of -2.

[Gadianton]

An apostle, or future apostle, married my grandfather to three sisters he brought back from his mission in 1906. My grandmother was so freaking angry. My grandfather was later excommunicated over it. But the apostle?

That's one heck of a story. Your grandmother stuck with him? It's so unreal that stuff like this used to happen. My grandparents on either side were children when their families converted and immigrated to Utah. They must have done so a few years later, because we have some pretty intense family history projects and I don't recall polygamy being mentioned for any reason.

[Gadianton]

Wow... this thing is starting to come apart at the seams, and you can just sense the Mopologists' desperation.

Yeah, I'm blown away by the inability of the apologists to get in any good digs lately. Not even Kiwi57 or Midgley had a comeback for Chewbarker. Let's face it, this was if not an uncontested, a barely contested slam dunk. I have serious concerns over Interpreter's ability to pull of a "one-two punch" with this film and the documentary. I really feel like they are just tired and beaten down. They're hoping to reclaim costs on the movie and then probably just give up after that.

[Doctor Scratch]

Wow... this thing is starting to come apart at the seams, and you can just sense the Mopologists' desperation.

Yeah, I'm blown away by the inability of the apologists to get in any good digs lately. Not even Kiwi57 or Midgley had a comeback for Chewbarker. Let's face it, this was if not an uncontested, a barely contested slam dunk. I have serious concerns over Interpreter's ability to pull of a "one-two punch" with this film and the documentary. I really feel like they are just tired and beaten down. They're hoping to reclaim costs on the movie and then probably just give up after that.

Yeah--something is definitely up. Have you seen the recent remarks from "Butthead"? I gather that this is an allusion to Bill Hamblin's acrostic/T-shirt? In any case, I'm sure you caught Dr. Peterson's ridiculous reply:

So, lesser Beavis, do you believe that widowed men and women who remarry are disgusting sexual deviants?

It's been intriguing indeed to watch all the pro-polygamy LDS dudes come out of the woodwork. Sure: they claim that no one says anything about this in Elder's Quorum meetings, but hey: How dare anyone insinuate that there's anything "wrong" with it! This remark, from "Jack," really sums things up well:

I'm going to butt heads with you a bit here. I'm not trying to attack you personally--only to point out that your comment seems to reflect the mind set of so many in our culture who swat at sociopolitical gnats and swallow sociopolitical camels. It seems (to me) that among the first to decry polygamy are those who lionize the sexualization of women, "responsible" premarital sex, whimsical divorce, single motherhood, abortion, and so on and so forth.

That said, I don't mean to lump you in with that particular crowd--my guess is that you're probably a little more socially conservative than all of that. Even so, I think a little context can provide a clearer view of reality. Whatever one's personal views may be regarding polygamy -- and you certainly have a right to your own -- as practiced among the early Latter-day Saints it does not compare in any way to the horrid flood of sexual misconduct that we see in our culture today. Millions of homes and families have been destroyed by our modern sense of morality--let's keep things in perspective.

EDIT: I should add: Deseret was probably the most stable society established in modern American history--polygamy notwithstanding. So whatever one may believe about the lifestyle of the saints in those days--one has to admit they must've been doing to something right.

What is "whimsical divorce," I wonder? And would Jack have more of a problem with *irresponsible premarital sex? You really have to accept that this is about as candid of a statement of the Mopologist "party line" as you are ever going to see on the issue of polygamy.