In 2013 Russell M. Nelson opened a stake in Armenia, what happened next?

[SLCC alum]

There are a couple of things that I think President Nelson and Sledge should keep in mind when it comes to high quality prophesying. First, you should put a time stamp on when your prophesy will be fulfilled. For example, in Helaman 14, Samuel the Lamanite prophesied that in 5 years there would be a day and a night and a day when there was no darkness. And then, sure enough, according to the text, and much to the chagrin of the naysayers, the day and a night and a day thing happened.

Second, when it comes to high quality prophesying, is to make your prophesy something of a scientific discovery but before the scientific community discovers the discovery. For example, God is frequently criticized for not revealing germ theory a long time ago. Additionally, would it count as prophesy if I told you guys, “Hey, don’t smoke.” Or “you should eat a well balanced diet with lots of fruits and vegetables.” Maybe that counts as prophesy, it’s just not high quality.

One other thing, when President Nelson said the vitamin prophesy, he didn’t say “take your vitamins.” The actual prophesy was: “eat your vitamin pills.” Which I think carries a different weight then what Sledge is purporting.

[Sledge]

Notice that while Sledge responds to every message, he/she refuses to actually respond to the content of my comment (linked above), that "home-centered" represents an exhaustively surveyed and trialed business decision at least 7 years in the making.

I didn't respond because I assumed you understood what my point was. Is there a timeline on the freshness of the prophecy for it to be a prophecy? In other words, does it matter if the prediction came 7 years ago or 7 minutes ago? Sure, it was 7 years in the making. God inspired our leaders to undertake studies and trials to make sure the home-centered church would work. Remember god still has to work within the rules (e.g. don't mess with free will, don't subvert natural laws, etc.)

Sledge is here to troll and nothing more. Like MG. He'll resort to ad hominem or nit picking when pressed, but what you won't see is him do is engage on hard content.

You accuse me of ad hominem but do you have an example of me ever doing that here? Do you have an example of me ever being unkind at all to anyone here?

[Sledge]

There are a couple of things that I think President Nelson and Sledge should keep in mind when it comes to high quality prophesying. First, you should put a time stamp on when your prophesy will be fulfilled. For example, in Helaman 14, Samuel the Lamanite prophesied that in 5 years there would be a day and a night and a day when there was no darkness. And then, sure enough, according to the text, and much to the chagrin of the naysayers, the day and a night and a day thing happened.

Second, when it comes to high quality prophesying, is to make your prophesy something of a scientific discovery but before the scientific community discovers the discovery. For example, God is frequently criticized for not revealing germ theory a long time ago. Additionally, would it count as prophesy if I told you guys, “Hey, don’t smoke.” Or “you should eat a well balanced diet with lots of fruits and vegetables.” Maybe that counts as prophesy, it’s just not high quality.

One other thing, when President Nelson said the vitamin prophesy, he didn’t say “take your vitamins.” The actual prophesy was: “eat your vitamin pills.” Which I think carries a different weight then what Sledge is purporting.

I agree. I don't think this was an example of a high quality prophecy, just a regular--even meek--one.

[Sledge]

Prior to the pandemic devastating the world, was the time when a prophet needed to stand up and be counted. Instead, fake prophet nelson changes schedules while dancing with sparklers in his hand, hoping no one will notice. What's the point of having a prophet if he can't help the people avoid the big catastrophes? Do we really need schedule changer r us? What a fraud.

Hey Nelson, there is a virus killing a bunch of people all over the world. What does God want us to do? You supposedly have an in with God and supposedly you are his spokesperson. So, what do we do? Is there a cure that maybe God can provide?

Nelson: we are hard at work, changing church from 3 hrs to 2. What a miracle!!! Hallelujah to God and the Lamb!!! Now those suffering and dying from the virus can do so in the privacy of their own home. God certainly is smiling upon us.

Yes, of course reductio ad absurdum! Genius.

Here's something to think about. If you were god (the Mormon version), how would you have warned people about the upcoming pandemic? Remember, you have to abide by the Mormon god rules: no messing with free will, no messing with existing natural laws, no appearing to people (no one is holy enough), etc.

[dastardly stem]

I agree. I don't think this was an example of a high quality prophecy, just a regular--even meek--one.

I have to say, this is basically you taking your foot out of your mouth. Is it even a prophecy in any sense? It seems you attempted a change of definition when pressed to suggest prophecy just means prediction. When I asked what you think was predicted, I got nothing.

Let's inspect the elements a minute:

Russell M. Nelson and team decided to cut church to 2 hours (down from 3) and suggested Mormons should do more family church type things--replacing, as I recall, the last hour of Church with family church each week.

A pandemic hits and Sledge boasts--the Mormon prophet prophesied since he said Church should be less hours each week and people need to spend more time with their families.

When asked how it is a prophecy Sledge announces it's a meek prophecy, even a mere prediction. When asked what was the prediction, he goes silent.

On to Pres. Nelson saying people should take their vitamin pills. Sledge claims "its a prophecy...since, healthier people are less impacted by Covid." Yet, the instruction by Nelson was not a literal direction to take vitamins, it was a statement to boost excitement. Nelson said it in the context of new revelations to further the restoration would come in the next year or two. What are those? How does that make a prophecy? Again...Nothing.

Sledge, let's try this...what is prophecy and what is one good solid, non-meek example of there being a prophecy in the past, say, 10 years?

[Sledge]

I have to say, this is basically you taking your foot out of your mouth. Is it even a prophecy in any sense? It seems you attempted a change of definition when pressed to suggest prophecy just means prediction. When I asked what you think was predicted, I got nothing.

Did I change the definition? Where? Like I suggested earlier, if you are looking for a magic trick then you might not understand the nature of prophecy.

Let's inspect the elements a minute:

Russell M. Nelson and team decided to cut church to 2 hours (down from 3) and suggested Mormons should do more family church type things--replacing, as I recall, the last hour of Church with family church each week.

A pandemic hits and Sledge boasts--the Mormon prophet prophesied since he said Church should be less hours each week and people need to spend more time with their families.

When asked how it is a prophecy Sledge announces it's a meek prophecy, even a mere prediction. When asked what was the prediction, he goes silent.

When you use words like "boasts" you are making assumptions. I boasted nothing. I said it was an example of a prophecy. That's it. I think emphasizing home-centered and family-centered church was the right thing to do in light of the upcoming pandemic (which president Nelson may or may not have understood). The lord works through his representatives on earth in his own ways, you know. And you could have found out for yourself if this was a mandate from god or not.

On to Pres. Nelson saying people should take their vitamin pills. Sledge claims "its a prophecy...since, healthier people are less impacted by Covid."

You put quotes around those words as if they are mine, and they clearly are not. Healthier people are, in fact, less impacted by disease (including COVID, which is a disease). Heeding a prophets words to be healthy, to "take vitamins" is a type of prophetic mandate, is it not?

Sledge, let's try this...what is prophecy and what is one good solid, non-meek example of there being a prophecy in the past, say, 10 years?

It's not like Bible times when prophets stood on mountains or even small hills and declared damnation and destruction. This is the restoration. We have to set our expectations properly. What is the time span between big prophecies in Bible times? Hundreds of years usually, right?

[dastardly stem]

Did I change the definition? Where? Like I suggested earlier, if you are looking for a magic trick then you might not understand the nature of prophecy.

I figured that's what you were doing here: "I regard it as an example of a prophet giving a prophesy, even if small. Prophecy just means prediction." Does prophecy just mean prediction? If so, again, what was predicted?

When you use words like "boasts" you are making assumptions. I boasted nothing. I said it was an example of a prophecy. That's it. I think emphasizing home-centered and family-centered church was the right thing to do in light of the upcoming pandemic (which president Nelson may or may not have understood).

So are you saying prophecy is now simply "the right thing to do..."? How is it possibly a prophecy?

The lord works through his representatives on earth in his own ways, you know. And you could have found out for yourself if this was a mandate from god or not.

I've been trying to find out for myself, unfortunately the one claiming prophecy won't answer questions to help--at least not in an honest and straightforward way. And with that said, now it's a mandate? Is a prophecy a mandate? What is the reason why anyone should regard this as a prophecy? I'm happy to start from the top.

You put quotes around those words as if they are mine, and they clearly are not. Healthier people are, in fact, less impacted by disease (including COVID, which is a disease). Heeding a prophets words to be healthy, to "take vitamins" is a type of prophetic mandate, is it not?

Quoting the relevant part of our conversation:

You give as an example of prophecy:

2) “Take your vitamins.”

I respond:

Pretty sure you're joking, but on the off chance you are not, what specifically about "Take your vitamins" is a prophecy?

you answered:

Healthier people were/are less likely to suffer from severe COVID symptoms.

I'm not following your use of prophecy in applying it to Nelson's metaphoric comment about eating your vitamin pills. How is this a prophecy?

It's not like Bible times when prophets stood on mountains or even small hills and declared damnation and destruction. This is the restoration. We have to set our expectations properly. What is the time span between big prophecies in Bible times? Hundreds of years usually, right?

Hey, if there aren't any, just say so. Are there no prophecies you can point to? Any specific prophecies, say, in the past 40 years? If so, what are they? How might we know they are prophecies and how might we inspect them?

[Philo Sofee]

Sledge is Mental Gymnast folks...... he posts exactly as MG did, and has the same approach to criticism, and valid refutations. He avoids issues at all costs, deflecting, and truly deliberately skips over all the main points that defeats his paradigm. Hi MG.....(waving his hand)

[Dr Exiled]

Prior to the pandemic devastating the world, was the time when a prophet needed to stand up and be counted. Instead, fake prophet nelson changes schedules while dancing with sparklers in his hand, hoping no one will notice. What's the point of having a prophet if he can't help the people avoid the big catastrophes? Do we really need schedule changer r us? What a fraud.

Hey Nelson, there is a virus killing a bunch of people all over the world. What does God want us to do? You supposedly have an in with God and supposedly you are his spokesperson. So, what do we do? Is there a cure that maybe God can provide?

Nelson: we are hard at work, changing church from 3 hrs to 2. What a miracle!!! Hallelujah to God and the Lamb!!! Now those suffering and dying from the virus can do so in the privacy of their own home. God certainly is smiling upon us.

Yes, of course reductio ad absurdum! Genius.

Here's something to think about. If you were god (the Mormon version), how would you have warned people about the upcoming pandemic? Remember, you have to abide by the Mormon god rules: no messing with free will, no messing with existing natural laws, no appearing to people (no one is holy enough), etc.

Good lord. Why have a Prophet in the first place if Mormon god cannot speak to anyone as your rules suggest? Also, you misunderstand the stupid rules you just proposed in the first place. Mormon God supposedly speaks spiritually and involves himself in the lives of members all of the time by helping them find their lost car keys, helping them find a job, helping them choose their eternal mate, etc. He also tells Russell M. Nelson all about scheduling changes and supposedly inspired Kirton & McConkie to fashion the family proclamation as an exhibit to the HI lawsuit that was going on at the time. So, your Mormon god already involves himself, supposedly, in a lot, guiding his church to great financial heights and superior schedules. HE could have easily whispered something to Russell M. Nelson or some Mormon doctor about a remedy and still be the champion scheduler that everyone has come to know and love.

Just think of it. Saving the world from the horrible virus would have been a boon to missionary work. However, I know, Mormon god doesn't really want people to get converted, so HE sends out children. HIS purpose is getting his missionaries to recite nonsense in front of crowds, hoping they get ridiculed a little bit so they can then become extremely defensive like our brothers and sisters on MD&D who twist and turn valid questions and arguments and deny everything remotely negative about their precious Mormonism regardless of reality.

Finally, these rules you proposed are more of the ad hoc justification for Russell M. Nelson is basically impotent as a supposed prophet.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” - definitely not a prophet

- Doc