Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

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jpatterson
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Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

Post by jpatterson »

In 2018, Infants on Thrones released a "smackdown" episode discussing an open letter that was written to John Dehlin and Open Stories Foundation by an anonymous donor and listener.

In the episode, Glenn Ostlund, Matt Long and Ryan McKnight discussed the questions raised in the letter, which revolve primarily around Open Stories Foundation finances. They also discuss the Rosebud saga (including John lying about why the MSP communities were shut down in 2012 in order to provide cover for his "affair") and Glenn includes a post-script in which he discusses having spoken with three fromer Open Stories Foundation employees -- two of whom resigned and one who was terminated -- who described a "toxic" work environment under John.

Glenn deleted this episode some time in 2019 after one of John's uber wealthy donors phoned Glenn and asked him why he was "going after" John. After Rosebud released her forensic interview and mentioned the episode on her website, Glenn reached out to her in order to correct what he called "misinformation" in her chronology, saying that John had never reached out directly to him asking him to take the episode down.

Glenn then provided her with the audio file of the episode, which can now be found here: https://soundcloud.com/user729166484/io ... ohn-dehlin
Last edited by jpatterson on Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Open Letter in case it disappears again:

Open Letter: Questions for John Dehlin and Open Stories Foundation Board from a concerned donor.

Dear John Dehlin/Open Stories Foundation Board,

I have been a regular donor to the Open Stories Foundation (Open Stories Foundation) for many years and have greatly benefited from the podcasts/services provided. Unfortunately, over the past several months, new developments have caused me to question my support. Some of these same concerns have been voiced by others in progressive and post Mormon circles.

One thing I learned from leaving the church was to never again follow anyone or anything blindly. If I see things that are concerning, I speak up and ask questions. This leads me to this letter that includes sincere questions aimed at clearing up my concerns.
Open Stories Foundation Staff/Board of Directors

My first area of concern is about the Open Stories Foundation staff and Board of Directors. I heard that the entire Open Stories Foundation staff has quit. These rumors are corroborated by the fact that the Open Stories Foundation Team webpage has been taken down and John Dehlin has started asking for volunteers to help do things (like record podcasts) that have been handled by staff previously.

Is it true that the entire staff quit? Or did John Dehlin remove all staff?
If so, why? If this is true, it points to clear internal discord with John Dehlin.
How will funds used for their salaries be re-allocated?
Are all the podcasters still on staff? They have also been removed also from the team page which raises a few red flags.
There have been rumors that multiple board members have resigned.
Is this true? If so, why did they resign?
Who is currently on the board and what are their roles?
How are Open Stories Foundation and the donations it receives governed?

Use of Open Stories Foundation Funds

My next concern is how Open Stories Foundation donations are being used. According to the Open Stories Foundation website, in the last two fiscal years (2016 to 2017) you enjoyed a $100,000 increase.

Is John Dehlin now the only person on Open Stories Foundation payroll? If not, who is still on payroll?

Given the substantial increase in donations, why is John Dehlin asking Open Stories Foundation donors to contribute money so he can do MSP interviews? I thought Open Stories Foundation was separate from the podcasts but this request implies that Open Stories Foundation and MSP are one and the same. Why wouldn’t these expenses by covered by existing donations?

Image

If people choose to donate money when John Dehlin makes one-time requests on Facebook for things like flights or billboards, does that money go to the Open Stories Foundation or is it going directly to John Dehlin?

Do any of the other podcasters benefit from these donations?

Why did the recent Open Stories Foundation billboard only include marketing for Mormon Stories?

Why aren’t Open Stories Foundation donations going towards fair and equal promotion for all partner Open Stories Foundation podcasts?
Open Stories Foundation non-profit organization turning into a for-profit business

Another concern is the for-profit business that John Dehlin recently launched with his wife Margi and Natasha Parker called Center for Religious and Secular Progress and “Mormon Faith Crisis” (MFC).

Image

I watched the now-deleted promotional video John Dehlin released and I think the project has a lot of potential. However, I am troubled by it being launched as a for-profit business separate from the Open Stories Foundation. This seems to introduce ethical concerns associated with using a non-profit organization to support/launch a for-profit business.



Here are my questions:

Has this new for-profit business received any financial support from Open Stories Foundation donations?
Why is this new for-profit business using material from Open Stories Foundation and vice-versa?
The same question can be asked about Margi Dehlin’s private coaching practice using Open Stories Foundation material for promotion.
Why are the same events being advertised on the for-profit website Mormon Faith Crisis and the non-profit website Mormon Stories?
Where do funds from events go?
On the MFC website and in a recent Facebook live video there are a number of services that John Dehlin, Margi Dehlin and Natasha Parker promise to provide. Given the scope of this new business, will the Open Stories Foundation be able to continue fulfilling its mission if John Dehlin is the only remaining staff member?

Maybe there are legitimate answers to all these questions. Maybe there are even more important questions that I am not asking. Many others have written about Open Stories Foundation’s questionable finances. Former employees, community members, and media have raised flags. It all causes me to wonder if the transparency John Dehlin/Open Stories Foundation claims is honest or a way to try to keep people from digging deeper.

I’ll end by pointing out an irony that is probably the most frustrating part of all this. If Open Stories Foundation and any of its key players are using donations in ways that are not true to the spirit in which they were given, that’s irresponsible. And, it’s frustratingly similar to one of the major issues I took with the LDS church when my family and I left.

I’m sure some will ask why I am not willing to sign my name to this letter. Over the years, I have seen what happens to people who publicly challenge John Dehlin. Past retaliations against those who speak out are often unpredictable and unreasonable. I’d rather not experience that. The questions and concerns I outline should be able to be answered regardless of who asks. Despite what “President” Oaks says, anonymous sources can be legitimate sources.

Looking forward to a response.
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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pistolero
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Re: Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

Post by pistolero »

Is there any additional information as to why John Dehlin is asking donors for extra help when they are already donating? It seems a bit cheeky.

In the State of the Union recent MS episode, John Dehlin got himself into a bit of a twist when trying to explain Gerardo's payment/donated time. I can understand why people want to participate in "the cause", help out instead of donate, etc... But I can't help but think that situations like these frequently end in tears in the long term. I mean, isn't this part of what happened with Rosebud?

I agree with John Dehlin that the cinematography is looking great recently, but I reckon there is a slight audio/video sync problem on some videos.

Is Markus Smith a pseudonym or someone verifiable? Do we know if John Dehlin addressed any of Markus' questions in his open letter? He probably did somewhere along the line, because John Dehlin does tend to like to dig that hole a tiny bit deeper with his responses.

Regarding other blogs, glad to see Rosebud still alive and well. Churning out new blog posts and stuff, please give her our regards.
Last edited by pistolero on Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

I made it to 26 minutes and they ain't said nuffin'. What timestamp is worth starting at?

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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pistolero
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Re: Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

Post by pistolero »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:53 pm
I made it to 26 minutes and they ain't said nuffin'. What timestamp is worth starting at?

- Doc
I think the money quote was Glenn referring to a conversation that he had with Rosebud: "She very much wants to move on with her life" at 4m10s.

And at about 3m20s it states that Markus Smith is a pseudonym.

I think I've actually listened to this episode already when it was originally released.

I think the epic thread on this board is a much more forensic look at Open Stories Foundation/Rosebud/etc... than this in order to episode.
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Re: Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

Post by drumdude »

Happy to add a deleted I O T episode to my collection. There's been several others that I wish I had kept, including one with a church apologist.
jpatterson
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Re: Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

Post by jpatterson »

One of the more salient parts is around 30 minutes when Matt goes off on the whole "swingers and drug users" part of John's infamous 2013 "faith reconstruction" podcast in which he claimed there was all this debauchery going on at MSP conferences including swinging and drug use and that's why he had to shut the communities down -- when in actuality we now know that he shut them down because of the Rosebud saga.

Matt was one of the organizers of a MSP community in Arizona and took that particular Dehlin lie rather personally.
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pistolero
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Re: Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

Post by pistolero »

jpatterson wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:23 pm
"swingers and drug users"
How can Matt, and you for that matter, know for certain there wasn't any swinging/debauchery going on at MSP conferences? In my hotel room at least, I made all participants sign a NDA.

I've listened right through the podcast now. Matt comes across as a bit grumpy. The 3 ex-employees seem to only make an issue of the toxic working environment at Open Stories Foundation, but Glenn relays really quite positive feedback in general about their experiences, other than the toxicity.

Nothing really to see here in terms of furthering RBs agenda I would suggest. If anything, it paints John Dehlin more favourably than many of those commenting here.
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Re: Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

Post by Atlantic »

I've listened to both MS and I O T but don't remember ever hearing this particular episode. Thanks for sharing. Did John ever respond anywhere to the questions asked of him in the aforementioned open letter?
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Long-lost Infants on Thrones smackdown of John Dehlin unearthed

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Somewhat related I noticed John Dehlin posting a hot take on r/exmormon today, and was wondering how often he does it. His ‘posts submitted’ here:

https://www.reddit.com/user/johndehlin/submitted/

6 hot takes in 15 days. Dude is really pumping r/exmormon for converts, and, it appears from the positive feedback, he’s found the avenue to drum up business. Interesting.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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