Solomon's 1,005 Songs = Alma's 1,005 martyred Lamanites and 230,000 Lucky Charms

[Shulem]

Values expressed in the Book of Mormon in complete fractional form above 1,000 are limited to the following:

1,005
3,043
12,532

There are only *THREE* occurrences! Three instances within the "grand" scheme of things (pun intended) whereby they are not rounded numbers but *ALL* digits are included within the number.

So what are the odds that Solomon's number would be included within the Book of Mormon?

12,532 - 1,000 = 1 in 11,532

In my judgment, the number "a thousand and five" is one of the most peculiar numbers in the entire Bible. It represents something very sentimental and yet mysterious and is directly associated with the personal accomplishment of arguably the most famous king of the Bible. Indeed, "a thousand and five" is unique and I argue that it received special attention in Smith's Book of Mormon via plagiarism as it was secreted deep within the book hidden up for all this time under everyone's very nose. I'm afraid the Mormons have been blinded by the craftiness of Joseph. It was a crafty psychological trick he employed in order to give his book a special quality that would go unobserved by the conscious mind for 192 years -- duping everyone who read it!

But the cat is now out of the bag here on Discuss Mormonism!

[huckelberry]

Hi Shulem. Has nobody taken a moment to say you make an interesting observation. It says something about Joseph emotional involvement in his Biblical utilization. Solomon' songs become a group of martyrs, there is a bit of invention in creating that link.

Now if I was a believer in the Book of Mormon I might suggest that the Solomon story was perhaps included in the records brought from Jerusalem.Looking at that stretch my mind remains solidly attached to seeing Joseph's flexible and involved use of Biblical material all over the Book of Mormon.
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adding, My intuitive sense is that there is a style to Book of Mormon use of Biblical material which suggests a single authorial mind doing the transitions. I do not know how to move that stylistic impression beyond a suspicion to something more established.

[Shulem]

Hi Shulem. Has nobody taken a moment to say you make an interesting observation. It says something about Joseph emotional involvement in his Biblical utilization. Solomon' songs become a group of martyrs, there is a bit of invention in creating that link.

Now if I was a believer in the Book of Mormon I might suggest that the Solomon story was perhaps included in the records brought from Jerusalem.Looking at that stretch my mind remains solidly attached to seeing Joseph's flexible and involved use of Biblical material all over the Book of Mormon.
//////

adding, My intuitive sense is that there is a style to Book of Mormon use of Biblical material which suggests a single authorial mind doing the transitions. I do not know how to move that stylistic impression beyond a suspicion to something more established.

Thank you very much, Huckelberry for commenting on this thread and you're most welcome to say anything you like or add whatever suits your fancy. It seems that this thread is getting viewed and there were a few early comments from regular posters but nobody really wants to jump in and dare say that good ole Shulem has nailed it. People are careful about showing their cards or making a public statement until they know more or see how others access it. But that's okay. I'll just keep talking about it until the cows jump over the moon if that's what it takes to convince people. A bona fide math assessment comparing the use of numbers from the Book of Mormon with the Bible will reveal it's a dead ringer when it comes to the 1,005. I wish someone would take up the cause. That would be a perfect job for Philo.

Smith took up his revision of the Bible shortly after publishing the Book of Mormon. The Joseph Smith translations of the Old and New Testaments show absolutely that he was willing to stick his neck out in both words and numbers. But we can be sure that Smith was every bit interested in marrying his Book of Mormon translation with the Bible and using the 1,005 was a small way (but powerful nonetheless) of creating a link between both accounts. It was very sneaky and devious on Joseph Smith's part. It was all part of the fraud as he figured he could just invent whatever he wanted and employ the Bible in whatever manner he wanted to suit his invention. In a sense, the Bible was Smith's slave and he thought he owned it.

[Shulem]

Just when I thought I had run out of ideas...

Solomon = "And he spake three thousand proverbs: and his songs were a thousand and five."

How was it that Smith was able to sneak the balance of Solomon's numbers (3,000) into his story without making it look obvious and getting caught? For Smith to sneak the 1,005 into his script was utterly brilliant and has gone unnoticed until now or until my alleged discovery -- hence this thread. But what if Smith said [this] which is probably what he would like to have done but was careful not to do it:

26 And it came to pass that the people of God were joined that day by more than the number [1,005] who had been slain; and those who had been slain were righteous people, therefore we have no reason to doubt but what they were saved.

27 And there was not a wicked man slain among them; but there were more than a thousand [3,000] brought to the knowledge of the truth; thus we see that the Lord worketh in many ways to the salvation of his people.

Had Smith done the above he would have been detected and I think he knew that. Perhaps he hid the 3,000 rather than blatantly connecting that number with the original story because he knew it was too risky to place 3,000 & 1,005 side by side without getting caught. Smith was smart enough to not do that!

8 Now this martyrdom caused that many [3,000] of their brethren should be stirred up to anger

13. . . and many [3,000] of them came over to dwell in the land of Ishmael and the land of Nephi, and did join themselves to the people of God, who were the people of Anti-Nephi-Lehi

3 Behold, I answer for you; for our brethren, the Lamanites, were in darkness, yea, even in the darkest abyss, but behold, how many [3,000] of them are brought to behold the marvelous light of God!

4 Behold, thousands [3,000] of them do rejoice, and have been brought into the fold of God.

13 Behold, how many thousands [3,000] of our brethren has he loosed from the pains of hell; and they are brought to sing redeeming love

22 yea, and it shall be given unto such to bring thousands [3,000] of souls to repentance, even as it has been given unto us to bring these our brethren [3,000] to repentance.

So, I feel impressed to say that Smith envisioned 3,000 saved and 1,005 killed.

3,000 proverbs = 3,000 converted Lamanites
1,005 songs = 1,005 martyred Lamanites

[Shulem]

Look, people, never mind the 1,005. That's small potatoes. Let me tell you something much bigger and much more unlikely to have really happened.

Mormon 6

Commander Mormon of the Nephite armies tells us that of all the Nephites to have survived the final battle there were only 24 left standing who took to the top of Hill Cumorah to witness the carnage. How many died in those battles? The account says that 230,000 Nephites perished as a result of the final battle leaving only "24" lucky lottery winners standing at the end of the day. Commander Mormon and his general Moroni were two of the lucky winners to have survived. It is said that even Mormon had fallen wounded but managed to survive while playing dead among fallen victims as the Lamanites marched through hacking down anything that moved. Moroni must have found a good hiding spot until the Lamanites left and then the "24" lucky survivors came together for one last meeting or so it seems.

How did Mormon and Moroni beat the odds?

24/230,000

Could it be that it was because they were cowards and hiding at the rear of the army in a bunker? Or is it that Joseph Smith was just making crap up while he told his story to gullible Oliver who believed anything he chanted out of his hat.



The Book of Mormon is a total joke. I have a testimony of that!

[Shulem]

Look kiddies,

Here on Hill Cumorah you can have a delicious bowl of Lucky Charms with all kinds of sweet surprises!




Golden plates? No problem, we have those too! I bear testimony.

Cureloms to make the long ride up the Hill Cumorah only 50 cents per person!

There is a naked lady for a sweet surprise in every box of magically delicious Lucky Charms!