Trump at West Point and the Gettysburg Address

[_EAllusion]

Because the US armed forces may have to serve in dangerous conditions, that means they can be treated like meatbags whose lives are expendable and who deserve treatment no better than that they will take what they get. Ah, supporting the troops.

Alternatively, forcing a bunch of them back into a mass gathering as props in a show-event that does not need to occur probably isn't good for them, nor is it good for safety and personal well-being to be ignored for the sake of political theater.

Also, on a separate note, it'd be nice if the head of the federal bureaucracy could model appropriate social distancing for once. I remember a time when the idea of President as role model was something lots of people pretended to care about.

[_Jersey Girl]

I understand that it was Trump's year to address West Point. The original address was scheduled for May 23rd. Cadets knew that they would be coming back to Campus at some point. My point is that having the entire class assemble at the same time creates a greater risk for the Cadets. Again, Who benefits?

Given the exact same circumstances Jersey Girl, do you really think Obama, Bush 45, Clinton, Bush 43, Reagan, Carter or Ford would address the Cadets?

And I don't think it very wise to raise the issue of inconvenience when discussing the US armed forces.

Inconvenience? No. Safety? Yes.

Why haven't you commented on Pence? It's because you didn't even know or think about the USAFA graduation until Trump was involved. Then all of a sudden it's a big damn deal because Trump.

And my answer to your question regarding former presidents is, yes I think they would have so long as safeguards were in place as they were for the USAFA, as they will be for the USMA and the USNA, though I'm not entirely sure what the USCG is doing though I assume that they're planning for the same style ceremony.

[_Jersey Girl]

Because the US armed forces may have to serve in dangerous conditions, that means they can be treated like meatbags whose lives are expendable and who deserve treatment no better than that they will take what they get. Ah, supporting the troops.

Alternatively, forcing a bunch of them back into a mass gathering as props in a show-event that does not need to occur probably isn't good for them, nor is it good for safety and personal well-being to be ignored for the sake of political theater.

Also, on a separate note, it'd be nice if the head of the federal bureaucracy could model appropriate social distancing for once. I remember a time when the idea of President as role model was something lots of people pretended to care about.

Why weren't you on here bitching about this issue prior to April 18th?

[_EAllusion]

[quote="Jersey Girl" post_id=1223029 time=1588101997 user_id=16]

Why weren't you on here bitching about this issue prior to April 18th?
[/quote]

I was busy killing a solider. As you know, their lives are meaningless because they might potentially die in a warzone.

Also, it wasn't as widely publicized, though Pence has received consistent criticism for his repeated use of formal military addresses as political props. Also, also, and most importantly, the Pence address didn't appear to involve forcing hundreds of people back to attend in a mass gathering.

[_Res Ipsa]

Explain something to me. Why didn't the media make the same fuss over the United States Air Force Academy graduation this year? Because it's Trump? Because the grads are having to return? One thousand cadets from the USAFA graduating class remained on base this year after the underclassmen were sent home. The graduation ceremony took place about a month earlier than usual.

Vice President Mike Pence delivered the address.

Trump didn't pull this out of his ass. He's following the normal rotation schedule of speakers. So what's the big hairy deal? The US Military Academy chose to send the grads home. The USAFA chose to retain the graduating class on base. Same class size.

Both Trump and Pence are following the rotation. And so what? What am I missing?

I think the difference is pretty clear. The Air Force Academy never sent its seniors home. They were already on campus, so having a graduation ceremony —closed to the public and with appropriate social distancing — posed little, if any, additional risk to the students. On the other hand, West Point and Annapolis sent ALL their students home. Annapolis is not having an in-person graduation ceremony because of the risk of having its students make an unnecessary round trip for the ceremony. The risks are obvious: that much travel requires close contact with all sorts of people. West Point, on the other hand, is requiring its students to come back. To New York. Was this decision made by the head of the school? It was announced by Trump himself.

The differences are obvious to me. The Air Force Academy didn’t force its students to return to school during a pandemic — they were never sent home and the graduation was moved six weeks earlier. The Naval Academy isn’t forcing its students to make a round trip during a pandemic for a ceremony. Only West Point, something like 100 miles from the epicenter of the epidemic in the US, is doing this. Why?

[_Icarus]

Because the US armed forces may have to serve in dangerous conditions, that means they can be treated like meatbags whose lives are expendable and who deserve treatment no better than that they will take what they get. Ah, supporting the troops.

[_MeDotOrg]

Why haven't you commented on Pence? It's because you didn't even know or think about the USAFA graduation until Trump was involved. Then all of a sudden it's a big damn deal because Trump.

And my answer to your question regarding former presidents is, yes I think they would have so long as safeguards were in place as they were for the USAFA, as they will be for the USMA and the USNA, though I'm not entirely sure what the USCG is doing though I assume that they're planning for the same style ceremony.

Again, Pence did require the class to re-assemble to hear his speech. Put it this way: If the situation were reversed, and Trump had addressed the AFA and Pence was going to West Point, I think the stink would be just as big, because of the risk.

But if the situation was reversed, I honestly don't think Pence would go because for Mike Pence the health concerns would outweigh the potential political benefits. I also believe the list of previous Presidents wouldn't have gone either. My evaluation is admittedly subjective, but I think you'd agree that Trump, in the history of Presidents, stands head and shoulders above the rest at putting his own benefit ahead of the public good.

[_Jersey Girl]

I think the difference is pretty clear. The Air Force Academy never sent its seniors home. They were already on campus, so having a graduation ceremony —closed to the public and with appropriate social distancing — posed little, if any, additional risk to the students. On the other hand, West Point and Annapolis sent ALL their students home. Annapolis is not having an in-person graduation ceremony because of the risk of having its students make an unnecessary round trip for the ceremony. The risks are obvious: that much travel requires close contact with all sorts of people. West Point, on the other hand, is requiring its students to come back. To New York. Was this decision made by the head of the school? It was announced by Trump himself.

The differences are obvious to me. The Air Force Academy didn’t force its students to return to school during a pandemic — they were never sent home and the graduation was moved six weeks earlier. The Naval Academy isn’t forcing its students to make a round trip during a pandemic for a ceremony. Only West Point, something like 100 miles from the epicenter of the epidemic in the US, is doing this. Why?

Why? Because it was always planned for them to return when they went on Spring Break. The USAFA ordered it's graduating class to remain in lock down on base. The USMA ordered their graduating class to stay home with a well understood plan to return (basically put on stand-by status) and with developing measures put in place to ensure their safe return.

Do people think that the USMA cadets are simply going to plow onto post in droves, take the field and pick up their crap with no health and safety measures installed? No testing? No quarantine?

[_Jersey Girl]

Again, Pence did require the class to re-assemble to hear his speech. Put it this way: If the situation were reversed, and Trump had addressed the AFA and Pence was going to West Point, I think the stink would be just as big, because of the risk.

I obviously disagree. Why? Because I see no evidence whatsoever on this board that anyone even knew that the USAFA graduation ceremony had already been held this month with Pence present and with social distancing measures in place. Why not? Trump referred to Pence's trip in the White House briefings. No one heard that?

But if the situation was reversed, I honestly don't think Pence would go because for Mike Pence the health concerns would outweigh the potential political benefits. I also believe the list of previous Presidents wouldn't have gone either. My evaluation is admittedly subjective, but I think you'd agree that Trump, in the history of Presidents, stands head and shoulders above the rest at putting his own benefit ahead of the public good.

I do definitely agree that Trump is his own type of narcissistic animal. No question about it. That said, the USMA cadets are going to arrive on post in small groups where they will be screened and tested for COVID-19, quarantined as appropriated and then set about the business of receiving their commissions with the President present to deliver their commencement address. I think they'll be safer than most any American in a highly populated area--epicenter or otherwise.

Certainly safer than the thousands of military who are already deployed into the epicenter and elsewhere around CONUS to combat the virus and lend support to the civilian medical community. I'd be more worried about them (no one else seems to be) than I would the WP cadets. But they were made for that work.

They are, after all, former cadets.

[_Chap]

Absent Trump's wish to address them, why would the USMA demand that its students should, under present disease risk conditions (which be it noted, affect not only graduands but also the families to whom they will return) make journeys from home to a risky area and back again, not to speak of all the time and trouble of undergoing quarantine (maybe twice, at USMA and then at home) and testing?

Apart from giving Trump an ego trip, what would be the point? The dangers run by other members of the armed forces on active duty serve a real purpose in saving citizen's lives. This ... not so much.

Was this decision made by the head of the school? It was announced by Trump himself.

Well, that's a hard one isn't it?