Donald J Trump Assumes Full Control of the Progressive Movement

[Hound of Heaven]

I believe I will take a short break from posting on the board. It seems that the progressives and their sympathizers are becoming somewhat agitated, and I certainly don't wish to push anyone to the point of needing therapy.

However, I find it quite puzzling how this forum operates. In this realm of spirit paradise, I find myself facing accusations of being both Atlantic Mike and Binger combined, as if I embody a dual spirit identity. MG 2.0 is facing accusations of trolling in the Mormon forum for expressing his viewpoint.

The confusing aspect is that it appears everyone here desires to be seen as open-minded, yet when a differing opinion is presented, it feels as though someone has disturbed the nest, causing the wasps to swarm and defend their territory.

However, that is once again a component of the suicide dance that progressives sway to. Feigning a facade of open-mindedness and tolerance while, at the same time, exhibiting a narrow-mindedness that leads to the denigration of those who dissent from their extreme narrative.

To benefit the board, I will be taking a few days off to allow the progressives to unwind and rejuvenate their energy.One advantage of my decision to take a break from posting is that it may allow Some Schmo's threads to gain more visibility and extend beyond just one page.

[canpakes]

Enjoy your time away, Hound. I’m sure that you’ll be back in short order.
; )

[Some Schmo]

You have to laugh when someone accuses others of not being openminded simply because they won't accept unsubstantiated/unprovable claims. They don't seem to know what "openminded" means.

You won't believe my BS, just because I don't present facts to support my position? You're closeminded...

Typical Trump voter.

[Doctor Steuss]

New Achievement Unlocked: Gaslighting Level Pro

[Kishkumen]

I believe I will take a short break from posting on the board. It seems that the progressives and their sympathizers are becoming somewhat agitated, and I certainly don't wish to push anyone to the point of needing therapy.

However, I find it quite puzzling how this forum operates. In this realm of spirit paradise, I find myself facing accusations of being both Atlantic Mike and Binger combined, as if I embody a dual spirit identity. MG 2.0 is facing accusations of trolling in the Mormon forum for expressing his viewpoint.

The confusing aspect is that it appears everyone here desires to be seen as open-minded, yet when a differing opinion is presented, it feels as though someone has disturbed the nest, causing the wasps to swarm and defend their territory.

However, that is once again a component of the suicide dance that progressives sway to. Feigning a facade of open-mindedness and tolerance while, at the same time, exhibiting a narrow-mindedness that leads to the denigration of those who dissent from their extreme narrative.

To benefit the board, I will be taking a few days off to allow the progressives to unwind and rejuvenate their energy.One advantage of my decision to take a break from posting is that it may allow Some Schmo's threads to gain more visibility and extend beyond just one page.

Who knew that someone who assumed the title of a famous poem as their handle could so utterly fail to understand metaphors!?!?

I hope you did not pay for that education.

[Chap]

You have to laugh when someone accuses others of not being openminded simply because they won't accept unsubstantiated/unprovable claims. They don't seem to know what "openminded" means.

You won't believe my BS, just because I don't present facts to support my position? You're closeminded...

Typical Trump voter.

That is also my impression. There are people who make statements of fact because they feel good about making them. They miss the point that in order for other people to accept your statements, you need to provide some evidence based argument to back them up.

[Some Schmo]

You have to laugh when someone accuses others of not being openminded simply because they won't accept unsubstantiated/unprovable claims. They don't seem to know what "openminded" means.

You won't believe my BS, just because I don't present facts to support my position? You're closeminded...

Typical Trump voter.

That is also my impression. There are people who make statements of fact because they feel good about making them. They miss the point that in order for other people to accept your statements, you need to provide some evidence based argument to back them up.

I met a lot of people with this mindset growing up in the church. It was this tacit idea that accepting outrageous ideas was more "openminded" than simple, data driven beliefs about the world. You kind of have to have that mindset to accept the divinity of Joe Smith, for instance.

They don't seem to understand that being openminded is about changing your mind after being presented with new data or fact based reasoning that modifies and enhances what you already know on that subject, presumably because your opinion was fact-based (to the best of your knowledge at the time) already.

[Chap]

On when, and how, one might change one's mind, it is as well to pay attention to the great Economist John Maynard Keynes (1883-1946)

"When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?"

Reply to a criticism during the Great Depression of having changed his position on monetary policy, as quoted in "The Keynes Centenary" by Paul Samuelson, in The Economist Vol. 287 (June 1983), p. 19; later in The Collected Scientific Papers of Paul Samuelson, Volume 5 (1986), p. 275; also in Understanding Political Development: an Analytic Study (1987) by Myron Weiner, Samuel P. Huntington and Gabriel Abraham Almond, p. xxiv; this has also been paraphrased as "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

Alas, if you present people with information that they can see might reasonably lead them to changing their conclusions, some people react by simply chanting 'fake news', so strong is their desire to stick at whatever cost to the views that make them feel comfortable in (say) blaming drag queens for the sexual molestation of children, when the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of the view that if a child is sexually molested, the most probable place for it to happen is at home, and the molester is likely to be a close family member. And it rather seems that 'some people' does include quite a high proportion of the population of certain countries.

[edited for typo]

[Some Schmo]

Alas, if you present people with information that they can see might reasonably lead them to changing their conclusions, some people react by simply chanting 'fake news', so strong is their desire to stick at whatever cost to the views that make them feel comfortable in (say) blaming drag queens for the sexual molestation of children, when the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of the view that if a child is sexually molested, the most probable place for it to happen is at home, at the molester is likely to be a close family member. And it rather seems that 'some people' does include quite a high proportion of the population of certain countries.

Right. And the irony of this, of course, is that if you base your beliefs on "your gut" and not based on data, it's going to be much harder to open your mind to new data, because you've not allowed it to work that way habitually. "Your gut" is a euphemism for closeminded dogmatism.

ETA: It occurs to me that "closeminded dogmatism" is a redundant phrase.

[Gunnar]

Right. And the irony of this, of course, is that if you base your beliefs on "your gut" and not based on data, it's going to be much harder to open your mind to new data, because you've not allowed it to work that way habitually. "Your gut" is a euphemism for closeminded dogmatism.

ETA: It occurs to me that "closeminded dogmatism" is a redundant phrase.

I remember hearing a MAGA conservative, Arizonan, politician proudly and arrogantly arguing he didn't need evidence for his claims, because he had his gut feelings, and that was all he needed. It is similar to arguments I have seen by flat-earthers accusing "globetards" of being closed minded when they presented incontrovertible evidence and reason proving beyond any reasonable doubt that the world could not possibly be flat. It is as dumb as accusing someone of being closed minded for insisting that 2 + 2 must equal 4.

I repeat for HoH's benefit that honest progressivism simply means always being willing to reexamine, reevaluate, modify or replace what we have when we find or figure out something that is or may be better or more effective. I am more than ever convinced that he doesn't understand what "progressive" even means. And he still hasn't, as far as I can tell, read the 2024 Democrat Platform and explained what (if anything) he found objectionable about it.

As for me, I am proudly and unashamedly progressive, which, contrary to what HoH seems to think, does not mean that I am a radical leftist or Marxist or in favor of censorship of views I don't agree with. Nor do I think there is anything wrong with honest free enterprise and entrepreneurship. Censorship is, as far as I'm concerned, as antithetical to honest liberalism and progressivism as anything can possibly be. And honest, uncompromising and even aggressive fact checking is not equivalent to censorship or bullying!