Ignorance on whose part?

[_Sam Harris]

Hey everyone, thanks for your input. A ditz on the beliefnet boards had the nerve to call ME a bigot. I posted this on the racism forum as well to see the responses to the black/white scenario that my coworkers turned this into. For me, it's a right/wrong scenario.

First of all, let me quote Mr. Mackey from South Park. "Drugs are bad, mkay?" Need I say more? And gramps, cigarettes and alcohol are addicting, I've seen people go down from these things. The only one that I think someone can exercise a modicum of control over is the alcohol, because all the crap in cigarettes makes them addictive, and you can't have just one. People who are alcoholics aren't addicted to the liquor, they're addicted to the fact that the liquor numbs the pain. And from my spiritual perspective, I feel that addiction is simply looking for God in all the wrong places. That's just my view.

I do not think all drugs should be made legal. And I don't think that just because it's there, people should use them. Has anyone watched Intervention? See those folks who need intervention? Do you think they need intervention just because the law made the drugs difficult for them to get?

People were trying to tell me today that I didn't know what it felt like to be poor. This is where my own "people" go wrong. Stop crying national racism if you still perpetuate it yourself. Ain't no segregated anything anymore, except in your own mind. So Joe Schmoe hates you. Give him the finger and go on your way.

I DO know what poverty feels like, how the hell can someone look at light skin and proper speech and think that I don't know what it means to suffer? I'm just morally stronger than your decrepit ass, apparently, if you think that the welfare you qualify for (and I don't, because I REFUSE to get pregnant outside of marriage and financial stability) isn't enough to feed you. If you think the affordable housing isn't enough to house you. My cousin gets star treatment because her dumb ass thought "I love you" was adequate birth control. I get nothing, not even a break on my hospital bills! If anyone could complain about being poor, it would be me! And trust me, I do complain.

Drugs are evil. And the people who sell them are evil. Plain and simple. I don't want your money, why not roll up a bill and snort some of that stuff you sell, so you can see what you do to your clients?

[_silentkid]

Is it a problem if someone sells alcohol, makes money off it, and then gives some of that money to the community? What about the tobacco companies? Should a community refuse to accept any donations to their community if it is a tobacco company, or?

Or are alcohol and tobacco, not drugs? And what about the pharmaceutical companies? Are all those new drugs they keep pumping out into the society beneficial to people?

Or is it just that some are legal and some are not?

And to tell you the truth: I wish people would get a little clearer about just what they mean when they say drugs.

I smoke pot, but don't grow my own. I have to buy it somewhere. I don't look down on the person I buy it from as some low-life scum who ought to get a job. Oh wait! He does have a "real" job, as well.

Legalize the whole lot of them and get rid of the criminality. Then, you will have plenty of money to fix up the communities. Keep it illegal and you invite the scum, low-life element selling crack and meth to the kids. Smart move, don'tcha think?

I agree that legalizing drugs will eliminate much of the criminal element. The so-called War on Drugs has been a huge, expensive blunder. But which drugs should be legalized? I have no problem with the idea of legalized pot, as its effects have been demonstrated to be much less harmful than alcohol. What about LSD, ecstasy, heroin, etc.? Should they be legalized and regulated (like tobacco and alcohol)? Who decides where to draw the line, if a line need be drawn?

[_moksha]

Good point GIMR.

Here is a short video to go along with it:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders

[_asbestosman]

Good point GIMR.

Here is a short video to go along with it:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders

That was an awesome video. Be sure to watch the whole thing no matter how boring you may think the beginning is.

[_gramps]

GIMR wrote:

First of all, let me quote Mr. Mackey from South Park. "Drugs are bad, mkay?" Need I say more?

Yes, you ought to say more. That is hardly convincing, and certainly not an argument (if you can even call it that) that would persuade me. Obviously, it hasn't persuaded many others, either.

So, you say that tobacco is bad. Alcohol, too. But, you didn't answer my question. Should communities take money from such industries to build up their communities? Are they not "drug dealers, albeit legalized ones?

You further state:

The only one that I think someone can exercise a modicum of control over is the alcohol, because all the crap in cigarettes makes them addictive, and you can't have just one. People who are alcoholics aren't addicted to the liquor, they're addicted to the fact that the liquor numbs the pain.

Some people clearly can't "exercise a modicum of control" over alcohol. Some people are addicted to alcohol, and not just for the psychological effects of numbing their pain. But, it isn't illegal. Maybe everyone should stop watching sports on T.V. if they don't want to support the alcohol industry?

You continue:

And from my spiritual perspective, I feel that addiction is simply looking for God in all the wrong places. That's just my view.

I wouldn't want to discredit in any way your spiritual perspective. You are entitled to it. But, taking "drugs" and "addiction" are two entirely different things.

My ex was addicted to sex. Seriously. Should we legislate against her genetic, psychological, and hormonal needs, as well?

Next, you write:

I do not think all drugs should be made legal. And I don't think that just because it's there, people should use them.

I agree that just because "drugs" exist, that people shouldn't necessarily use them. I also don't think that just because chocolate exists, everyone should eat it. What's your point?

If not "all" drugs should be made legal, which ones should? Alcohol? Tobacco? Pain killers? Pot? LSD? Heroin? Ayahuasca?
In which way would you distinguish one from another? On what grounds would you legalize one over the other?

And, finally:

Drugs are evil. And the people who sell them are evil. Plain and simple.

Baloney! "Religion is evil. And the people who preach religion are evil. Plain and simple." Geez, there, I said it. It must be twoo. Let's legislate it into the underground.


silentkid writes:

I agree that legalizing drugs will eliminate much of the criminal element. The so-called War on Drugs has been a huge, expensive blunder. But which drugs should be legalized? I have no problem with the idea of legalized pot, as its effects have been demonstrated to be much less harmful than alcohol. What about LSD, ecstasy, heroin, etc.? Should they be legalized and regulated (like tobacco and alcohol)? Who decides where to draw the line, if a line need be drawn?

Which drugs should be legalized? All of them.

The first step would be to classify them, as to their effects, both physical and psychological. They aren't all the same, obviously. To lump them all in to one category is the first mistake. Pot is not heroin. LSD is not tobacco. Ayahuasca is not cocaine. Aspirin is not ecstasy.

By labeling all substances as "drugs," it is easier to demonize the whole lot of them. Unless, of course, we legalize them, as with alcohol, tobacco, etc. Most people who like to speak evil of "drugs" don't even consider the legalized ones. Alcohol seems to have been accepted in society, despite all its damaging consequences. Why is alcohol given a free pass?

If parents think alcohol is bad, then they obviously should educate their kids as to why. Why not the same method with other illegal drugs? Why should one be legal and another illegal?

I think pot can be psychologically damaging for some people. I don't think it is a drug for everyone, but I don't want to legislate it. Educate!

For me, my ecstasy experiences have been very special. I, in fact, cherish some of them. It opened up parts of my heart that needed opening. But, how would I suggest others to use it? Well, first, is it pure ecstasy? What is the proper dosage, given my body weight, etc.? In what setting should I take it? In what mental frame of mind should I be in when I take it?

I would never suggest to someone that they try ecstasy if they aren't educated in the above questions. Again, educate!

LSD is not addictive, physically. Why make it illegal? I also cherish the experiences I have had on LSD. Again, educate! It is not for everyone. Great. but why throw someone into jail because he/she wants to try it. One can have a similar experience to LSD through techniques such as breathing, while listening to music (see, Stanislov Grof's experiments). Should we throw all those people taking seminars at the Esalen Institute where these techniques are employed, into jail because they experience a religious, mystic oneness with nature and their surroundings? Why make the chemical illegal, but keep the breathing technique legal?

Well, speaking about all this makes me want to go smoke a joint.

I love being someone else's queen bitch. That video clip is the classic example of everything gone wrong with drug education. Pathetic!

[_Mephitus]

If you want a real eye opener on a drug, research the history of a drug known by its chemical acronym, DMT. It has been credited to have been used by nearly ever starter of every major religion. Very interesting drug. And i don't care where you live, nearly everyone on the planet lives within 100miles(counting the desert, in area's where water is more prefluent, less than 5miles) of a place where this drug grows. Its the worlds most common halucinagen.

[_gramps]

Actually, you can stand still and find it. it is in your brain and everyone else's, as well.

You may have seen in my post the reference to ayahuasca. DMT is one of the two active drugs in that amazon jungle brew.

Yes, it is very powerful. I know.

[_Mephitus]

yeah, im awaiting my first try with it. I know its not something to do by yourself for the first time.