DiscussMormonism.com

Bond...James Bond wrote:Since it was ultimately a defeat I doubt it was the reason for our democracy today. I'd call Thermopylae a delaying action with Pyrrhic consequences. I'd say the naval victory at Salamis Bay saved the Athenian principle of democracy. But Athenian democracy isn't really democracy today so...

Salamis was probably one of the most influential battles in history, as without it concepts like democracy might not have survived persian rule in Greece.

Salamis wouldn't have happened had Thermopylae not delkayed the Persians long enough for Greeks (And the bulk of the Spartan military) to bug out. Had Thermopylae not happened and allowed the Greeks time to gather the fleet needed to defeat the Persians in Salamis Bay they would have had to try and defend the Isthmus of Corrinth against an amphibious assault by the Persians. Instead they put a sizable chunk of Xeres' force on the bottom of Salamis Bay.

No, there was nothing pyrrhic about Thermopylae for the Greeks. Thermopylae was the battle they lost in order to win the war.

Mr. Coffee wrote:
No, there was nothing pyrrhic about Thermopylae for the Greeks. Thermopylae was the battle they lost in order to win the war.

Prrhric for the Persians. The loss of 20000 some odd soldiers to 2000 had to be a real downer psychologically. Of course they had another 180,000+ troops...

A prryhic loss doesn't make sense.

I didn't really know where to put this, but I thought here was as good a place as any.

Interesting name. So I'm just wondering, does Mr. Coffee have a Z-team kind of like Mr. Tea has the A-team?

Alright, bad joke. Carry on.

asbestosman wrote:I didn't really know where to put this, but I thought here was as good a place as any.

Interesting name. So I'm just wondering, does Mr. Coffee have a Z-team kind of like Mr. Tea has the A-team?

Alright, bad joke. Carry on.

I pity the fool who laughs at this joke.-- Mr. T

J/K asbestos :)

asbestosman wrote:Interesting name. So I'm just wondering, does Mr. Coffee have a Z-team kind of like Mr. Tea has the A-team?

Alright, bad joke. Carry on.

The "A-Team" was a reference to the US Army Speacial Forces where a basic 12 man unit was known as an Alpha Team or an "A-Team". It's a reference to the A-Teams origins as a special forces unit in Vietnam. Yeah, I know the TV A-Team only had four memebrs, which technically made them the "Stick Team", but that wouldn't have worked worth a crap for TV, now would it?

TMFI and all that aside, yeah... The A-Team were pussies. I'd lay down the mother of all beating to those holywood fems in a heart beat. “F”, I'll give them a ten hour head start and a junk yard before I start by riping Face's face off, giving Murdock a lobotomy with a KaBar, choking B.A. Baracus with his gold chains, and then shoving Hanibal's cigar so far up his ass he dies from cancer.

But me? The only team I need is in the form of Mr. Kimber and Mr. Stoner. One makes my favorite pistols (Kimber 1911 Frame autos), the other created my favorite rifle (Eugene Stoner, designer of the AR-15/M-16/M-4 familly of rifles).

Just a side note. USA today said that in a poll 100% of the women who saw the movie approved of it, that's higher stats than most romantic comedies!

I thought that was interesting. It could be because of the nature of Spartan women, who supported their husbands going on this suicide mission based on the fact that it was the right thing to do and they knew it, letting their principles take presedence over their emotions.

Gazelam wrote:Just a side note. USA today said that in a poll 100% of the women who saw the movie approved of it, that's higher stats than most romantic comedies!

I thought that was interesting. It could be because of the nature of Spartan women, who supported their husbands going on this suicide mission based on the fact that it was the right thing to do and they knew it, letting their principles take presedence over their emotions.

It could also be because many chicks like seeing buff guys in the raw.

Gazelam wrote:Just a side note. USA today said that in a poll 100% of the women who saw the movie approved of it, that's higher stats than most romantic comedies!

I thought that was interesting. It could be because of the nature of Spartan women, who supported their husbands going on this suicide mission based on the fact that it was the right thing to do and they knew it, letting their principles take presedence over their emotions.

It's not as if the women were emotionally attached to their husbands. The men lived in barracks apart from their wives for a good part of their lives. In Sparta everything was downplayed in favor of the state and the army.

Holy freaking crap. that movie was awesome! To anyone on the fence about seeing it. DO IT! ill admit its a total guy flick. But its a great one.

Gazelam wrote:
Some say that it was the reason that our democracy is here today. It is estimated that by the end of that week they had killed 80,000 Persians.

Bond...James Bond wrote:Since it was ultimately a defeat I doubt it was the reason for our democracy today. I'd call Thermopylae a delaying action with Pyrrhic consequences. I'd say the naval victory at Salamis Bay saved the Athenian principle of democracy. But Athenian democracy isn't really democracy today so...

I'd put the number of Persian deaths closer to 20000-25000. But still against 2500 Greek deaths that's a 10-1 ratio. Pretty good really.

I watched a 3 hour doc on this on Discovery yesterday...several prominent PhD's actually presented pretty clear evidence that if not for the Battle of Thermo, there is a good chance there would be no democracy today. There are many reasons for this...first and foremost is the decline of the city state, and the rise of the nation state in Greece after said events. Democracy was also borne in Ancient Greece (ie Plato, Aristotle, etc), and would have probably been wiped out like Nazism had the Persians beat them.

Also, most put the Persian deaths more around (minimally) 500,000 - 1,000,000.

Also, during the last 2-3 days, most of the army left in small increments. The army was outflanked, and so they knew they would eventually be defeated. After most of the fighting force was gone, the 300 stayed with about 1,000 other soldiers and killed many Persians for a day or two before being killed.