Sarah Palin: Feminist hypocrisy revealed

[_EAllusion]

EA, it has been far, far more than "a few" voices on the left expressing the concern that a woman with five children including a Down syndrome infant and a pregnant teenage daughter can not perform the duties required to be Vice-President.

I personally did not see it much, and it certainly was avoided in the Democrats' talking points cycle. Must of the coverage on it what I read and watched was Republicans seizing on it and acting outraged over it. The political cartoon has the the user of the argument called "Democrats" which strikes me as quite wrong when the official line out of those Democrats was to knock it off. Once the superficial veneer was peeled off of Palin and the initial disinformation exposed, it turned out she is one of the most attackable candidates to come out in a long time. There's just so many angles available. The Democrat leadership desperately wanted the focus off of complaints about her family life and onto all the serious issues that have bubbled about.

I don't think the labor story counts. I found that whole situation as reported weird and strangely hilarious myself, though I don't really care as I think it is pretty low on indicators of what she'd be like as a President should it happen.

You're remembering wrong EA. I never described Palin as a "real" feminist. I do think that a working mother running for an office that has hitherto only been held by men is a powerful expression of feminism. What's more feminine than motherhood?

You said this is what feminism looks like. I thought what I wrote is an accurate translation of that. The notion that being a mommy is the height of femininity is a very anti-feminist idea. It's that kind of gender role prejudice that is at the core of what feminism opposes. I'd argue it is misogynist as well, but I think I'll just settle on the more limited claim that feminism is very much about fighting against those sorts of beliefs about what is a feminine (and masculine) role.

Certainly aspiring to any position once the exclusive domain of men is something feminists can applaud, but it isn't nearly enough to make one a feminist. I've notice two major themes emerge in feminist complaints about Palin - or rather how the McCain campaign has choosen to use her - that I think have validity. The first is to portray a vote for her as a victory for women. The second is to respond to a wide variety of perfectly valid questions, comments, and criticism by charging sexism when sexism clearly has nothing to do with it. Both are ridiculous and an insult to the intelligence of women. You have to be careful to avoid that here.

That doesn't mean I think the Gloria Steinem crew aren't feminists. Just as I recognize Mormons as Christians, different from my own form of Christianity but still valid, I'm willing to recognize different brands of the broad concept of feminism.

I am willing to recognize different kinds of feminism. I'd consider myself a liberal feminist while simultaneously thinking the radical feminists are nuts. But the term still contains meaning within that umbrella, and including some views is to render the term utterly meaningless. I remember on ZLMB I posted an old LDS article from the 70's arguing that Mormonism was the real Women's Liberation, baby. What's going on her isn't that bad, but it easily could go that route.

[_Angus McAwesome]

Wow, this thread is so full of crap the background is turning brown...

Let me guess, the far-right partisan GOP posters in this thread think "Feminism = Has a Vagina". Ok, someone explain to me how Sarah Palin IS a "feminist"? What feminist issues does she support? What feminist ideals does she speak on publicly?

Palin's "Feminist" Resume:

When she was Mayor of Wasilla in 200o she back then Governor Tony Knowles notion that the victems of rape should have to pay for the rape kits used by police to identify their assailants. That certainly doesn't sound like any "feminist" viewpoint I've ever heard of, so um... yeah...

Let, see... She's a former beauty pageant contestant? No, last time I checked feminists tended to view beauty pagents as being all about objectifying women, which is bad according to their ideals.

Um, she was a TV sports announcer arguably chosen for her looks? See the beauty pageant thing.

I know! She's a moderatly successful politician! Yeah, her and dozens of other women, which doesn't exactly make her stand out as a paragon of feminism.

I got it! She supports banning abortion, taking away a woman's right to choose! Oh, wait, that's not it either...

She has a great set of tits? *gets wapped by a rolled up news paper* Bad Angus! Bad patriarchal oppressor!

Seriously, can one of you explain to me how Palin actually is a Feminist at all? Having a vagina doesn't make her any more of a feminist then having a penis makes me a misogynist.

[_MsJack]

Wow, this thread is so full of s*** the background is turning brown...

Now that you've defecated that post into this thread, for sure.

Let me guess, the far-right partisan GOP posters in this thread think "Feminism = Has a Vagina".

As opposed to the far left, who think feminism = is ugly and likes to kill their own offspring. See, I can make stupid strawmen too.

Ok, someone explain to me how Sarah Palin IS a "feminist"? What feminist issues does she support? What feminist ideals does she speak on publicly?

How about this: Sarah Palin is a feminist because she advocates that a woman can have an education, a career and a family and that women do not have to choose between those options. Yep, that sounds pretty feminist-y to me.

When she was Mayor of Wasilla in 200o she back then Governor Tony Knowles notion that the victems of rape should have to pay for the rape kits used by police to identify their assailants. That certainly doesn't sound like any "feminist" viewpoint I've ever heard of, so um... yeah...

Holy ignorance Angus. One, there's no formal evidence that Palin personally backed the policy that rape victims had to pay for their own rape kits (or rather, their insurers would have to pay for it). Cite me some, I dare you. Two, it wasn't the policy of Governor Tony Knowles (a Democrat, by the way), he's the guy who got rid of the policy in 2000. It was a policy upheld by Police Chief Charlie Fannon, and it was a policy mirrored by many small towns in America at the time whose small police forces often had a hard time covering the bill for forensic medical exams. Three, while it's true that Palin hired Fannon along with the Wasilla city council who voted 5-0 in favor of Fannon over other candidates, so far there's no evidence anyone was ever actually charged for a rape kit. Palin likely never opposed the policy because it never actually became an issue.

See here to get informed. I don't blame you for going on lies and misrepresentations though, it's not like you have anything else to go on.

Let, see... She's a former beauty pageant contestant? No, last time I checked feminists tended to view beauty pagents as being all about objectifying women, which is bad according to their ideals.

Palin has repeatedly said that she only entered beauty pageants for scholarship money and that she wouldn't do it again.

Um, she was a TV sports announcer arguably chosen for her looks?

I look forward to you posting your evidence from Palin's Anchorage employers in the 80s that she was chosen strictly for her looks. Or are you just randomly claiming that all her achievements in her life were due to her looks? I'm sure all the real feminists out there would love that. Beautiful woman = got through life on looks, only ugly women get through life on their own.

I know! She's a moderatly successful politician! Yeah, her and dozens of other women, which doesn't exactly make her stand out as a paragon of feminism.

She's the first Republican woman in history to be nominated for Vice-President and the first woman ever to have a realistic chance at winning the Vice Presidency. What part of that doesn't stand out? Prior to being nominated she also had the highest approval rating of any governor in the country. If that's what you consider "moderate" success, what's your idea of an extremely successful female politician? Care to name some names?

I got it! She supports banning abortion, taking away a woman's right to choose! Oh, wait, that's not it either...

So you're also ignorant of the philosophy of pro-life feminists. No surprises there.

I personally did not see it much, and it certainly was avoided in the Democrats' talking points cycle. Must of the coverage on it what I read and watched was Republicans seizing on it and acting outraged over it.

Then you didn't read the same sources I read. Of course Republicans seized on it. You were expecting Democrats to make a big stink about their own hypocrisy?

You said this is what feminism looks like. I thought what I wrote is an accurate translation of that.

If by "accurate translation" you mean "brutal abortion" of what I said, then yes, you were right on. I'm a little surprised that you persist in your misinterpretation of my words even after I corrected you.

The notion that being a mommy is the height of femininity is a very anti-feminist idea. It's that kind of gender role prejudice that is at the core of what feminism opposes. I'd argue it is misogynist as well, but I think I'll just settle on the more limited claim that feminism is very much about fighting against those sorts of beliefs about what is a feminine (and masculine) role.

I never argued any of that, and I find it interesting that you're so eager to pin the badge of misogyny on such an innocuous comment. Feminists have long been arguing that a woman can have an education, a career and a family or any combination of those options and a woman does not have to give up one because of the other. To point out that Sarah Palin embodies that ideal isn't an automatic exclusion of the choices of other women.

The first is to portray a vote for Obama as a victory for minorities. The second is to respond to a wide variety of perfectly valid questions, comments, and criticism by charging racism when racism clearly has nothing to do with it. Both are ridiculous and an insult to the intelligence of minorities. You have to be careful to avoid that here.

Fix't.

Seriously, I agree with you in both cases EA. I just think the Obama campaign is just as bad with playing the race card, and there is actual sexism rampant among left-wing pundits, opinion columnists and bloggers against Sarah Palin.

I am willing to recognize different kinds of feminism. I'd consider myself a liberal feminist while simultaneously thinking the radical feminists are nuts. But the term still contains meaning within that umbrella, and including some views is to render the term utterly meaningless. I remember on ZLMB I posted an old LDS article from the 70's arguing that Mormonism was the real Women's Liberation, baby. What's going on her isn't that bad, but it easily could go that route.

Like I told Angus above, I think she qualifies as a feminist because she advocates that a woman can have an education, a career and a family without having to choose between them. If that isn't feminism what is it? Extremely liberal patriarchy?

Besides, I've read plenty of feminist blogs and the list against her has been thin and laughable. Angus's post above is a good example. "She's not pro-choice, she wanted women to pay for their own rape kits, she cut teen pregnancy funding, she's Republican!" All of those things are either lies, misrepresentations or irrelevant to the heart of what feminism is.

Oh, and Camille Paglia agreed that she was a feminist. That's got to count for something. The Republicans aren't crazy, they're just in agreement with Camille Paglia for the first time in history.

[_Angus McAwesome]

We's gonna have some fun now!

Now that you've defecated that post into this thread, for sure.

Great, another witless chucklehead that thinks "I know you are but what am I" school yard taunts are at all clever.

As opposed to the far left, who think feminism = is ugly and likes to kill their own offspring. See, I can make stupid strawmen too.

Only I'm not implying any such thing, jackass. So far all I've seen out of this thread is "She's a feminist because she has a college degree, kids, and a womb". Go learn what a strawman is, moron.

How about this: Sarah Palin is a feminist because she advocates that a woman can have an education, a career and a family and that women do not have to choose between those options. Yep, that sounds pretty feminist-y to me.

Because women being able to receive educations and get careers has been such a massive point of feminism for the last few years. I mean, gosh, she got a degree (in journalism, lol) which is totally a first, amirite? Ed And she got a job despite the evil patriarchy telling her to GTFB to the kitchen... And she's almost popped out enough kids to qualify her vagina as a clowncar.

Seriously, what has Sarah Palin done that actually qualifies her as a "feminist"? Going to school, getting a job, and pumping out snotlings doesn't make her a feminist anymore then me having a cock makes me a misogynist. What has Sarah palin done other then be a normal woman and politician? For “F”'s sake, I support women getting educations, having careers, and if they want to, families as well. Does that mean I'm a damned feminist now?

Holy ignorance Angus. One, there's no formal evidence that Palin personally backed the policy that rape victims had to pay for their own rape kits (or rather, their insurers would have to pay for it). Cite me some, I dare you.

Just like there isn't any evidence that she tried to change the policy at the local level either. Unless you can cite some that she did... She was Mayor, her watch, her responsibility.

Two, it wasn't the policy of Governor Tony Knowles (a Democrat, by the way), he's the guy who got rid of the policy in 2000.

No, Tony Knowles was the guy that steamrolled the bill changing the policy through the state senate.

It was a policy upheld by Police Chief Charlie Fannon, and it was a policy mirrored by many small towns in America at the time whose small police forces often had a hard time covering the bill for forensic medical exams.

And he did so because the the city lacked funding and he'd prefere to bill the rapist for the kit instead of the victem or the tax payer. But hell, you've managed to cock up the read of your rebuttle, why let facts get in the way now.

Three, while it's true that Palin hired Fannon along with the Wasilla city council who voted 5-0 in favor of Fannon over other candidates, so far there's no evidence anyone was ever actually charged for a rape kit.

One of two reasons for that. Either 1. they didn't have any rapes to investigate, hence no need for billing for a rape kit, or 2. such matters would be kept confidential as part of a police investigation.

But why let logic get in the way of your fabulous little diatribe, amirite?

Palin likely never opposed the policy because it never actually became an issue.

Wow, so you're big excuse is "well, maybe she didn't have a damned clue as to what was policy in HER OWN damned TOWN"? And you want this woman having a say on national policy? Even worse, if true you'd also be saying that this "feminist" couldn't really care about an issue that would be important to actual feminists. What are you, legally retarded?

See here to get informed. I don't blame you for going on lies and misrepresentations though, it's not like you have anything else to go on.

Yes, because when I think "Credible and unbiased source for information" I immediately go to a far right blog called "confederateyankee"...

Palin has repeatedly said that she only entered beauty pageants for scholarship money and that she wouldn't do it again.

I've gotten plenty of lap dances from nice girls who told me they were just dancing to pay for school and after they graduated they'd quit working the club. You're point was what? Oh, wait, you dind't have one.

I look forward to you posting your evidence from Palin's Anchorage employers in the 80s that she was chosen strictly for her looks.

Name one Female TV news personality that isn't at least reasonably attractive. ALL female TV talking heads start out because they're cute and have a pleasant voice.

Or are you just randomly claiming that all her achievements in her life were due to her looks? I'm sure all the real feminists out there would love that. Beautiful woman = got through life on looks, only ugly women get through life on their own.

No, I'm saying she got a highly visible spot on TV because of her looks. Nice try at serving red herring there, dumbass.

She's the first Republican woman in history to be nominated for Vice-President and the first woman ever to have a realistic chance at winning the Vice Presidency. What part of that doesn't stand out?

She wasn't chosen by the McCain campaign because she's a highly educated (she's not), dynamic (she's not), woman who represents the feminist view of the GOP (they don't have one). She was chosen because McCain needed a VP that could take attention away from Obama's skin color and that he beat out the first viable female presidential candidate we've ever had. Palin is the McCain campaign's way of saying "Nevermind that he's black! We've got a woman on our team!". If you think otherwise then you're woefully ignorant about how US politics really work.

Prior to being nominated she also had the highest approval rating of any governor in the country.

Whoopity doo. I don't give a crap if she can win a popularity contest. Can she lead effectively and does she add anything to the McCain campaign that would cause me to vote in his favor this November? That's what I want to know and what I've seen so far isn't very promising.

If that's what you consider "moderate" success, what's your idea of an extremely successful female politician? Care to name some names?

Let's see...

Hillary Clinton... Arguably one of the most influential females in US Politics today.

Then there's the Bitch Queen of California, Nancy Pelosi...

Oh, and Margret Thatcher...

“F”, I could rattle off women who've far greater educations, political background, more meaningful careers, and have had a greater effect on history all day long. Palin isn't anything special.

So you're also ignorant of the philosophy of pro-life feminists. No surprises there.

Any woman that is in favor of removing another woman's right to choose what to do with her own body is not a "feminist".

Nice try, give you points for trying to run with the Rape Kit thing even though it failed. Try again when you're bringing your a-game.

[_MsJack]

Great, you've recognized that I'm another witless chucklehead that thinks "I know you are but what am I" school yard taunts are at all clever.

Indeed I have.

Only I'm not implying any such thing, jackass. So far all I've seen out of this thread is "She's a feminist because she has a college degree, kids, and a womb". Go learn what a strawman is, moron.

Neither did I ever imply that being a woman automatically makes one a feminist--I expressly stated that I (as a woman) don't consider myself a feminist, which should have put to rest your idiotic suggestion otherwise. But that's okay, I didn't expect a jackass and a moron like you to pick up on it.

Because women being able to receive educations and get careers has been such a massive point of feminism for the last few years. I mean, gosh, she got a degree (in journalism, lol) which is totally a first, amirite? Ed And she got a job despite the evil patriarchy telling her to GTFB to the kitchen... And she's almost popped out enough kids to qualify her vagina as a clowncar.

Seriously, what has Sarah Palin done that actually qualifies her as a "feminist"? Going to school, getting a job, and pumping out snotlings doesn't make her a feminist anymore then me having a cock makes me a misogynist. What has Sarah palin done other then be a normal woman and politician? For f***'s sake, I support women getting educations, having careers, and if they want to, families as well. Does that mean I'm a f*****g feminist now?

So you're ignorant of what feminism is and what feminists fight for, and you think that simply ridiculing someone who is a clear and living example of feminist ideals constitutes an argument. No wonder you spend more time calling people names than actually trying to back your arguments.

Just like there isn't any evidence that she tried to change the policy at the local level either. Unless you can cite some that she did... She was Mayor, her watch, her responsibility.

You're the one making the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

No, Tony Knowles was the guy that steamrolled the bill changing the policy through the state senate.

"Knowles signs sexual assault bill."

And he did so because the the city lacked funding and he'd prefere to bill the rapist for the kit instead of the victem or the tax payer. But hell, you've managed to cock up the read of your rebuttle, why let facts get in the way now.

Aw, you quoted the USA Today article that was explicitly linked to and refuted in the article I cited earlier. How cute.

One of two reasons for that. Either 1. they didn't have any rapes to investigate, hence no need for billing for a rape kit, or 2. such matters would be kept confidential as part of a police investigation.

But why let logic get in the way of your fabulous little diatribe, amirite?

The burden of proof is still on you. Please show me some examples of women who were billed by the police department (not the hospital) for their own rape kits or kindly STFU.

Wow, so you're big excuse is "well, maybe she didn't have a damned clue as to what was policy in HER OWN f*****g TOWN"? And you want this woman having a say on national policy? Even worse, if true you'd also be saying that this "feminist" couldn't really care about an issue that would be important to actual feminists. What are you, legally retarded?

Rape victims were already covered by the Violent Crimes Compensation Board, and you still haven't produced any evidence that any women were ever billed by the police department for rape kits. You don't have a case. Well, okay you do have a case... of Palin Derangement Syndrome. ZING!

Yes, because when I think "Credible and unbiased source for information" I immediately go to a far right blog called "confederateyankee"...

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that the Daily Kos hasn't issued a response yet so you don't know what to think or how to reply.

I've gotten plenty of lap dances from nice girls who told me they were just dancing to pay for school and after they graduated they'd quit working the club. You're point was what? Oh, wait, you dind't have one.

Neither do you.

Name one Female TV news personality that isn't at least reasonably attractive. ALL female TV talking heads start out because they're cute and have a pleasant voice.

No, I'm saying she got a highly visible spot on TV because of her looks. Nice try at serving red herring there, dumbass.

So you think all TV news personalities get their jobs ONLY because of their looks. Otherwise what was your point? That's right, you don't have one.

She wasn't chosen by the McCain campaign because she's a highly educated (she's not), dynamic (she's not), woman who represents the feminist view of the GOP (they don't have one). She was chosen because McCain needed a VP that could take attention away from Obama's skin color and that he beat out the first viable female presidential candidate we've ever had. Palin is the McCain campaign's way of saying "Nevermind that he's black! We've got a woman on our team!". If you think otherwise then you're woefully ignorant about how US politics really work.

Yes she is, yes she is, yes she does (yes they do), no he didn't. If you think otherwise then you're woefully ignorant about how US politics really work.

Whoopity doo. I don't give a s*** if she can win a popularity contest. Can she lead effectively and does she add anything to the McCain campaign that would cause me to vote in his favor this November? That's what I want to know and what I've seen so far isn't very promising.

In other words, you don't give a damn about any evidence that refutes your non-arguments and might threaten your bad case of Palin Derangement Syndrome. I can't blame you.

Hillary Clinton... Arguably one of the most influential females in US Politics today.

Widely considered to have ridden her husband's coattails to success. Very good model of a feminist, that one.

Then there's the Bitch Queen of California, Nancy Pelosi...

Historically low Congress approval rating of 14% since she became Speaker of the House. Another fantastic example. "But that's just a popularity contest and in no way shows she's doing a crappy job!" Riiiight.

Oh, and Margret Thatcher...

I have no complaints about Thatcher. She's pretty cool.

Any woman that is in favor of removing another woman's right to choose what to do with her own body is not a "feminist".

You're wrong, and stupidly so.

Nice try, give you points for trying to run with the Rape Kit thing even though it failed. Try again when you're bringing your a-game.

Ooo, calling people dumbass and moron is SRS BSNS!!1

[_MsJack]

I've deleted what I originally posted here because I wanted to note that I'm done.

I've reported Angus's post above to the moderators and I expect that they will intervene. Sexist pejoratives are not funny and sarcastically acknowledging that they are in fact sexist pejoratives while making them does not make them okay. I understand that there is a level of free speech on this board and that the off-topic forum does not have a formal rating, but I believe it is blatantly against the spirit of this forum to make one member feel uncomfortable being here through blatant gutter talk and sexism.

Furthermore, while I have sunk to Angus's level on this thread and reflected back some of his "you're stupid" name-calling on him, I won't do this anymore or engage this kind of behavior anymore. If the posts of any participants on this board contain any comments to the effect of "the person I disagree with is dumb," I will not respond.

I will not participate further in this thread until/unless the moderators clean up the sexist remarks displayed above and I thank the moderators in advance for their consideration.

[_Yoda]

Moderator note--Since Angus' last round of remarks fall more into the category of flaming, I have moved it to the Telestial Forum. Liz

[_EAllusion]

I never argued any of that, and I find it interesting that you're so eager to pin the badge of misogyny on such an innocuous comment. Feminists have long been arguing that a woman can have an education, a career and a family or any combination of those options and a woman does not have to give up one because of the other. To point out that Sarah Palin embodies that ideal isn't an automatic exclusion of the choices of other women.

You said, "What's more feminine than motherhood?"

Unless you were genuinely asking and not making a rhetorical point, I think you argued just that. If I said, "What's more awesome than this post?" the proper interpretation would be that my post was the height of awesomeness. This notion is something long opposed by feminists. It is a direct violation of the core ideas that define the term. I'm comfortable calling it anti-feminist. And I happen to agree with feminists that it is misogynist.

Fix't.

False equivalence, unfortunately. There hasn't been nearly the same habit in the reverse. The Clinton campaign did this from time to time, and I thought it was absurd, but even they weren't as blatant about it. The McCain campaign has been far more free in charging sexism, both explicitly and implicitly, to deflect criticism that clearly isn't sexist than anything the Obama campaign has done with race. It quickly got to the point where it was a sad joke. It's as if they saw how Clinton used the sexism card to get loyal female support and said to themselves, "Gotta get me some of that." But their attempts at doing it are ham-fisted.

Like I told Angus above, I think she qualifies as a feminist because she advocates that a woman can have an education, a career and a family without having to choose between them. If that isn't feminism what is it? Extremely liberal patriarchy?

It's an idea that feminists would agree with, but holding a couple of views feminists would agree with does not make one a feminist. Suppose she didn't think this. But suppose she also didn't think women must submit to men in family decisions, as many who belong to her religious subculture do. There would be an instance of her agreeing with something feminists are inclined to agree with, but that in of itself isn't enough to make her a feminist. Heck, we can take this a step further. Does supporting women's suffrage make one a feminist?

Are you endorsing Paglia's argument or just noting that Paglia made it?

[_MsJack]

You said, "What's more feminine than motherhood?"

Unless you were genuinely asking and not making a rhetorical point, I think you argued just that. If I said, "What's more awesome than this post?" the proper interpretation would be that my post was the height of awesomeness. This notion is something long opposed by feminists. It is a direct violation of the core ideas that define the term. I'm comfortable calling it anti-feminist. And I happen to agree with feminists that it is misogynist.

This is the last time I'm defending myself from your misogyny nonsense EA. My comment only meant that I view motherhood as a powerful feminine expression, and just because I think motherhood is a very feminine thing doesn't mean I think motherhood is the only valid expression of being a woman or the best expression of being a woman. You seem determined to put words into my mouth no matter what I say, so I'm done.

False equivalence, unfortunately. There hasn't been nearly the same habit in the reverse. The Clinton campaign did this from time to time, and I thought it was absurd, but even they weren't as blatant about it. The McCain campaign has been far more free in charging sexism, both explicitly and implicitly, to deflect criticism that clearly isn't sexist than anything the Obama campaign has done with race. It quickly got to the point where it was a sad joke. It's as if they saw how Clinton used the sexism card to get loyal female support and said to themselves, "Gotta get me some of that." But their attempts at doing it are ham-fisted.

Oh come on EA. You're just blind to the flaws on your own side.

"Have any of you noticed that Barack Obama is part African-American?” Sebelius asked with sarcasm. “(Republicans) are not going to go lightly into the darkness.” ~ Kathleen Sebelius, linked to Hot Air cache because the Miami Herald edited their copy to remove the offending remark.

Electing a black person "will be a transformative event in America" from Biden.

Slate - "Racism is the only reason Obama might lose."

"Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois today urged hundreds of blacks not to vote along racial lines next week in Maryland's Senate race. Obama, the only black U.S. senator, came to the state to rally support for Democratic Rep. Benjamin L. Cardin, who is white. Cardin's Republican opponent, Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele, is the first black candidate ever elected statewide and has been courting black Democrats." ~ Associated Press, Nov. 3

"The nation's only black senator, Barack Obama, D-Ill., asked voters at two black churches and at a Nashville rally to elect [Harold] Ford, a Democrat who is trying to become the first black senator from the South in more than 100 years. 'I know that all of you are going to work the next couple of days to make sure it happens, because I'm feeling lonely in Washington,' Obama said at the Mt. Zion Baptist Church. 'I need my dear friend to join me.' " ~ Associated Press, Nov. 5 (source)

Obama and his team can and do play the race card whenever their hearts desire; those are just some recent ones I can remember easily. Furthermore, major left-wing blogs have been publishing outrageously sexist material about Sarah Palin:

"I realized three things tonight. For one, if you are a McCain/Palin/Bush voter, you and I do not have a difference of opinion. We have a difference in brain power. Two, she really is as ignorant as I feared. And, three, she really is kinda hot. Basically, I want to have sex with her on my Barack Obama sheets while my wife reads aloud from the Constitution. (My wife is cool with this if I promise to "first wipe off Palin's tranny makeup." I married well.)" ~ Michael Seitzman, Huffington Post

Know of any major right-wing blogs that have posted hateful racial fantasies about Barack Obama being a dumb slave who picks cotton and is called "boy"? I read most of the major rightwing blogs, and I've never seen any racist posts or columns that compares to the flippant sexism Seitzman shows here. EDIT: I should have thought of Ann Coulter before I wrote that paragraph because chances are she's said some pretty crazy stuff. But I'm still pretty confident we've seen more examples of widespread sexism and grassroots sexism from the left than racism against Obama from the right.

It's an idea that feminists would agree with, but holding a couple of views feminists would agree with does not make one a feminist. Suppose she didn't think this. But suppose she also didn't think women must submit to men in family decisions, as many who belong to her religious subculture do. There would be an instance of her agreeing with something feminists are inclined to agree with, but that in of itself isn't enough to make her a feminist. Heck, we can take this a step further. Does supporting women's suffrage make one a feminist?

I'll have to get back to you on this one EA. I think that her current position and life story is a strong start. I think that her membership in Feminists for Life means she has likely made regular contributions to their cause of offering financial and emotional support to pregnant women and students. But off the top of my head, the only pro-woman legislation I can think of that she's carried out is to increase funding for pregnant teens--liberal feminist blogs have regularly repeated the lie that she slashed funding on their list of reasons why she's not feminist, so it seems to me that ought to count the other way then.

Are you endorsing Paglia's argument or just noting that Paglia made it?

The latter. Last I checked she's a big name in the liberal feminist movement (if a dissenting one), and she has no problem granting her the title feminist.

[_MsJack]

I've had some more thoughts on this issue of why Sarah Palin is a feminist. So far the good folks here who have questioned her feminism have largely worked by deconstructing her resume one line at a time or in small groups. Being a woman =/= feminist. Having a career =/= feminist. Having an education =/= feminist. Having a husband and/or kids =/= feminist. Being the first woman to have a serious chance at the Vice Presidency also =/= feminist. The realization dawned on me that one could do this with the resume of any person claiming to be a feminist, take it apart line by line or in small groups and snort about how that doesn't make her feminist. Does being pro-choice make you feminist? I know plenty of people who are pro-choice and definitely aren't feminists. Women's suffrage? No again. Pretty much everyone thinks women should have the right to vote and that doesn't make them feminists. I could go out and look up all of Sarah Palin's legislation that supports women in some situation or other, and none of it would "prove" that she's feminist.

I don't claim to be an expert on feminism, but I think I've decided this: feminism has to do with what you do in conjunction with why you do it. At the heart of feminism is the fundamental belief that men and women are equal, have equal potential, and ought to be treated equally socially and politically. Okay, let's just assume that Sarah Palin believes that, because she says she does. And then look at her life and her accomplishments.

Does being a working mother with kids who's running for office make her a feminist? No. Does being a working mother with kids who's running for office and sees that as an attempt to further advance the equality of women everywhere make her a feminist? Yes. Very much so yes.

Note that I'm not saying that a woman can do anything and so long as she thinks she's demonstrating equality it's feminist; see EA's earlier example about Mormon women in the 70s claiming their prescribed roles constituted "true liberation." But a governor running for vice-president who says she believes men and women are equal and will advocate to that end? I certainly think that fits the bill.

What's also interesting to me is the whole "but Palin's not pro-choice" objection. According to Feminists for Life, neither were Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony or Mary Wollstonecraft, they were all strongly pro-life--Anthony had a bit of nuance to her position, but was still more pro-life than anything. I've honestly been looking for a liberal feminist treatment of the notion that Palin is not a feminist because she's pro-life when compared to Stanton, Anthony & Wollstonecraft, but haven't found one yet. I'm honestly curious what those who argue this now think, but liberal feminist blogs seem to avoid mention of the pro-life positions of Stanton and Wollstonecraft; in fact they only get mentioned for cutesie quotes and lead-ins. They do mention some of the controversy on Anthony's position from time to time.

As a final note, a piece of bi-partisan legislation that Palin surely supports (it's sponsored by Feminists for Life) is the Elizabeth Cady Stanton Pregnant and Parenting Students Act. The purpose of the act is to provide pregnant college students with financial aid, medical support and counseling so that they don't feel as if they have to choose between their babies and their education. It's currently sponsored by 7 Republicans and 5 Democrats. That seems like legislation that should square pretty well with established feminist goals.