White privilege is a myth

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Dr Exiled
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Re: White privilege is a myth

Post by Dr Exiled »

canpakes wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:39 pm
Chap wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:08 pm
Being white does not in itself guarantee that your life will have any positive features at all.
I’d guess that there are no guarantees for any skin color.

What I’m curious about is why the concept of ‘privilege’ causes some folks such fear to the point where they feel that they have to deny its existence. It’s as if they can’t acknowledge that it’s a completely normal byproduct of an unbalanced social mix. It doesn’t necessarily imply anything purposefully sinister. It just is.
I'll take a stab at it. I think people recoil at the concept because of the implications. Once it is admitted that there is some amorphous white privilege caused by past generations, then there must be some sort of remedy coming. What is the remedy going to be? Are you ready to give back your land to the Native Americans? MLK wanted people to be judged by the content of their character. Isn't that enough? Or is there something more needed? Should the legal system and economic system be skewed in favor of anybody but whites for a while? Is that fair, given what occurred in the past? Should people today pay for crimes committed in the 1920's south?
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Re: White privilege is a myth

Post by Chap »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:12 pm
Once it is admitted that there is some amorphous white privilege caused by past generations, then there must be some sort of remedy coming. What is the remedy going to be? Are you ready to give back your land to the Native Americans? MLK wanted people to be judged by the content of their character. Isn't that enough? Or is there something more needed? Should the legal system and economic system be skewed in favor of anybody but whites for a while?
Some black people may think they are, as a people, entitled to financial reparations for the unpaid labour of their ancestors in building the American economy. But I am not sure how many of them really think that is a practical proposition. After all, what does 'black mean'? Would one's reparation payment be in proportion to the 'African-ness' of one's gene pool?

Rather than getting into that, how about starting with something simpler: a general recognition that there are a lot of poor, unemployed and incarcerated people in the US who are not in those conditions simply because of their own fecklessness, idleness or wickedness, but that many of them started with and have always had to live with handicaps that many nice kind white people simply cannot imagine? That does not mean that the said nice kind white people need to feel guilty just for being white (though they might start talking and even acting a little differently once they understand things better.) That alone might help a lot.
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canpakes
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Re: White privilege is a myth

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Dr Exiled wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:12 pm
canpakes wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:39 pm


I’d guess that there are no guarantees for any skin color.

What I’m curious about is why the concept of ‘privilege’ causes some folks such fear to the point where they feel that they have to deny its existence. It’s as if they can’t acknowledge that it’s a completely normal byproduct of an unbalanced social mix. It doesn’t necessarily imply anything purposefully sinister. It just is.
I'll take a stab at it. I think people recoil at the concept because of the implications. Once it is admitted that there is some amorphous white privilege caused by past generations, then there must be some sort of remedy coming. What is the remedy going to be? Are you ready to give back your land to the Native Americans? MLK wanted people to be judged by the content of their character. Isn't that enough? Or is there something more needed? Should the legal system and economic system be skewed in favor of anybody but whites for a while? Is that fair, given what occurred in the past? Should people today pay for crimes committed in the 1920's south?
I agree with this. I think that you’re correct that folks begin to fear that something is going to be ‘taken away’ from them.

There’s some irony in the thought that somehow the dominant social and racial class in this country is going to be subjugated and stripped of their assets and freedoms by brown and black folks. Seems to show a bit of a myopic view of history, as well. Those folks would do well to make themselves more aware of historical realities.

The truth is much simpler. The accommodations suggested by acknowledging (white) privilege pretty much just end up being minor, and/or fair and reasonable. And this is a different topic than reparations, critical race theory, or systemic racism, however defined.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: White privilege is a myth

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Quite often we see people state that white people are the beneficiary of white privilege to whatever degree. It's usually some sort of vague unquantifiable assertion that blanket covers whites and anyone else that gets shoved into that category. I think the worry, in my opinion justifiably so, is that the claimed sins of past generations falling on a large demographic that isn't really enjoying its privilege will result in a 'solution' that double taps the already disadvantaged whites and 'others' that fall within the privileged category.

For example, if the federal and state government apparatus is going to take out loans of, say, a trillion dollars, to hand over to POCs in whatever form, and the additional tax burden falls squarely onto the shoulders of the 'privileged' masses, this is a problem. One problem we're seeing play out in real time is justifying the discrimination of a bloc of people based on the sins of the fathers (and the color of their skin - irony), and as we know the past is a complicated reality that can't be boiled down to 'they had it better at your expense'. Additionally, if a municipality is going to bake into policy that, say, 'racism' is 'health problem' then it follows that the resources directed to specific 'disadvantaged' races will come at a cost, and that cost will be shouldered by the working class.

It's an incredibly tricky and delicate process of acknowledging the disadvantages POCs suffered from the system, while not making 'whites' the scapegoat when the vast majority of whites weren't the beneficiaries of the system, and yet they're being blamed and are being asked to finance reparations, in whatever form, because they're born guilty. I think fair and equitable treatment of all citizens is probably the most important long-term strategy of a democracy within a republic - how we get there will be tough because the people who hold true power and hold a stranglehold on our planet's resources have done an effective job at being beyond the state, beyond the judiciary, and beyond accountability in any significant manner. They're incredibly adept at keeping the lower classes bickering at each other, and, as lower classes are apt to do, they enjoy it to their own detriment.

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Re: White privilege is a myth

Post by huckelberry »

Doc, I think you make a good point above. You seem to be pointing out that the category of white people with white privilege has within it some people who have a great deal more privilege than others. There may be a tendency for the people with the most privilege to pass burdens off onto those with less. Those with less privilege can feel threatened. Naturally.
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canpakes
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Re: White privilege is a myth

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:47 pm
Quite often we see people state that white people are the beneficiary of white privilege to whatever degree. It's usually some sort of vague unquantifiable assertion that blanket covers whites and anyone else that gets shoved into that category. I think the worry, in my opinion justifiably so, is that the claimed sins of past generations falling on a large demographic that isn't really enjoying its privilege will result in a 'solution' that double taps the already disadvantaged whites and 'others' that fall within the privileged category.
This can happen when folks conflate ‘white privilege’ with reparations. Acknowledging (insert any type of) privilege is not the same as demanding reparations of any type. They don’t really even address the same root issue. Much of what is put out there attempting to refute ‘privilege’ ends up falling into straw man territory.

As example, one list demonstrating ‘white privilege’ gives the following benign example:
I can choose blemish cover or bandages in “flesh” color and have them more or less match my skin.
If the Evil Librul Gubmint mandated that all band-aids must henceforth be produced in only POC hues, no white person would suffer any financial burden from that move, although there’d be probably some irritation as to why there were no skin-matching options. Imagine that. ; )

Here’s the rest of the list:
I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser’s shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.

I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world’s majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to “the person in charge,” I will be facing a person of my race.

If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.

I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children’s magazines featuring people of my race.

I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.

I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.

I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.
This list has been around since 1989, and many if not most of these are still relevant. And none of them demand any burden be extracted from white people, were they to be aggressively addressed.

Here’s a more serious and contemporary list, about what it means to live amidst white privilege, for someone who’s white:
1. I Have The Privilege Of Having A Positive Relationship With The Police, Generally

2. I Have The Privilege Of Being Favored By School Authorities

3. I Have The Privilege Of Attending Segregated Schools Of Affluence

4. I Have The Privilege Of Learning About My Race In School

5. I Have The Privilege Of Finding Children’s Books That Overwhelmingly Represent My Race

6. I Have The Privilege Of Soaking In Media Blatantly Biased Toward My Race

7. I Have The Privilege Of Escaping Violent Stereotypes Associated With My Race

8. I Have The Privilege Of Playing The Colorblind Card, Wiping The Slate Clean Of Centuries Of Racism

9. I Have The Privilege Of Being Insulated From The Daily Toll Of Racism

10. I Have The Privilege Of Living Ignorant Of The Dire State Of Racism Today
Seems like a pretty accurate assessment of the situation. I’ll let Atlanticmike tell me how that list isn’t accurate, since he wants to claim that privilege doesn’t exist.
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Atlanticmike
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Re: White privilege is a myth

Post by Atlanticmike »

canpakes wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:23 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:47 pm
Quite often we see people state that white people are the beneficiary of white privilege to whatever degree. It's usually some sort of vague unquantifiable assertion that blanket covers whites and anyone else that gets shoved into that category. I think the worry, in my opinion justifiably so, is that the claimed sins of past generations falling on a large demographic that isn't really enjoying its privilege will result in a 'solution' that double taps the already disadvantaged whites and 'others' that fall within the privileged category.
This can happen when folks conflate ‘white privilege’ with reparations. Acknowledging (insert any type of) privilege is not the same as demanding reparations of any type. They don’t really even address the same root issue. Much of what is put out there attempting to refute ‘privilege’ ends up falling into straw man territory.

As example, one list demonstrating ‘white privilege’ gives the following benign example:
I can choose blemish cover or bandages in “flesh” color and have them more or less match my skin.
If the Evil Librul Gubmint mandated that all band-aids must henceforth be produced in only POC hues, no white person would suffer any financial burden from that move, although there’d be probably some irritation as to why there were no skin-matching options. Imagine that. ; )

Here’s the rest of the list:
I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser’s shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.

I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world’s majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to “the person in charge,” I will be facing a person of my race.

If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.

I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children’s magazines featuring people of my race.

I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.

I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.

I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.
This list has been around since 1989, and many if not most of these are still relevant. And none of them demand any burden be extracted from white people, were they to be aggressively addressed.

Here’s a more serious and contemporary list, about what it means to live amidst white privilege, for someone who’s white:
1. I Have The Privilege Of Having A Positive Relationship With The Police, Generally

2. I Have The Privilege Of Being Favored By School Authorities

3. I Have The Privilege Of Attending Segregated Schools Of Affluence

4. I Have The Privilege Of Learning About My Race In School

5. I Have The Privilege Of Finding Children’s Books That Overwhelmingly Represent My Race

6. I Have The Privilege Of Soaking In Media Blatantly Biased Toward My Race

7. I Have The Privilege Of Escaping Violent Stereotypes Associated With My Race

8. I Have The Privilege Of Playing The Colorblind Card, Wiping The Slate Clean Of Centuries Of Racism

9. I Have The Privilege Of Being Insulated From The Daily Toll Of Racism

10. I Have The Privilege Of Living Ignorant Of The Dire State Of Racism Today
Seems like a pretty accurate assessment of the situation. I’ll let Atlanticmike tell me how that list isn’t accurate, since he wants to claim that privilege doesn’t exist.
Very simple. STOP TREATING BLACK PEOPLE DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHER AMERICANS. They're are not victims!! They don't need you, the white man to hold their hand to make it through life. You're not seeing the big picture here!! 70 years ago we destroyed the Germans, killed millions of them in two world wars. And now they are an ally of ours, we moved past the death and destruction, we don't look back and say look, look, look what happened back then. We bombed and killed millions of Japanese. Now they come to America to live the American Dream. Japan is an Ally, both countries have moved past all the death and destruction. Africans from countries like Nigeria and Ghana come here and succeed and on average have a higher median income than white people. Their kids are more successful in college than white people on average. 99.9% of the people walking to the southern boarder are not white people!!! If America is so racist why are they walking towards Americans!!!!
Here's my point. America is one of the least racist countries in the world!! One of the main reasons black Americans are having such a hard time succeeding in America is there's one party who can't let the past go because if they do they will lose votes. Every chance the Democrats get they bring up slavery and how racist America is. Why? Because 95% of black Americans vote for Democrats. Democrats need black Americans to feel dependent on them and their policies. Democrats are a bunch of race hustlers that don't actually give a crap about black Americans! That just want their votes, that's it. Democrats can't enslave black Americans physically anymore, so they deploy psychological warfare to try to enslave them mentally. It's disgusting!!! Please stop it!!

This man speaks the truth
https://youtu.be/p-154SatBqQ

American with Nigerian heritage talks to Joe Rogan
https://youtu.be/VKxndp2Nexo
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canpakes
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Re: White privilege is a myth

Post by canpakes »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:08 pm
Very simple. STOP TREATING BLACK PEOPLE DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHER AMERICANS.
Great suggestion. If folks did that, you wouldn’t have a problem like privilege, and folks wouldn’t need to post lists about how differently they’re treated.

Otherwise, why does this list exist?
  • I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

    If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

    I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

    I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

    I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

    When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

    I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

    If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

    I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser’s shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

    Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

    I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

    I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.

    I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

    I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

    I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

    I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world’s majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

    I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

    I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to “the person in charge,” I will be facing a person of my race.

    If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.

    I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children’s magazines featuring people of my race.

    I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.

    I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.

    I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

    I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

    If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.
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Some Schmo
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Re: White privilege is a myth

Post by Some Schmo »

It's pretty obvious why certain white people deny white privilege (aside from their enthusiastic racism). They suck at life. It makes it much harder to blame the world for their incompetence if they acknowledge their advantages. It also makes for harder to think any success they've had was all because of their innate talent, and not systemic advantages.

In other words, they're whiny, self-deluded little bitches.
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canpakes
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Re: White privilege is a myth

Post by canpakes »

Some Schmo wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:56 pm
It's pretty obvious why certain white people deny white privilege (aside from their enthusiastic racism). They suck at life.
I can’t say much for their argument, which boils down to, “those people’s concerns don’t exist for them if I think they shouldn’t be a concern”.

I couldn’t ask for a better real-time demonstration of privilege, lol.
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