Ryan: Democrats are very afraid of him.

[_EAllusion]

Hey, I'm not advocating ending social security. Just because I plan on replacing social security payments for people who retire after the year 2025 with being anally raped by broken baseball bats doesn't mean I'm ending social security. It's still called social security.

----------------------------

Oh. Ok then. My bad. I thought you were advocating ending social security.

[_bcspace]

With Ryan, Obama is already on the defensive regarding the $700 billion in Medicare cuts that came with Obamacare and wasn't actually offset by anything else. That's part of the plan anyway; underfund Medicare, shift those costs onto to private insurance who will be charged more by doctors to recoup Medicare losses, that drives up premiums, and people shift over the the underfunded government national plan where there will be less care available and quality will be poorer.

It won't be long before Republicans figure out what the Supreme Court has already acknowledged. Obamacare is a tax and it's the largest tax on the middle class ever in history. All Republicans have to do is ask Obama why, if he's so keen on taxing the rich first, did he saddle the middle class with this huge tax?

[_EAllusion]

That's the very new zombie talking point the Romney camp is trying out. I don't see how the Obama team doesn't simply retort, "We cut out 700 billion dollars of waste. And is this is a problem why?"

The "cuts" in Medicare aren't to services, but rather closing loopholes in the reimbursement system. It had wide bipartisan support. That aspect of Obamacare was going to pass under any administration. Obama just used it as a way of covering projected costs for the ACA expansion.

It's being used, like BSCspace does here to falsely imply that Medicare services were cut. It's like BCSpace is allergic to honest criticism.

Way to own up to those falsities in the article I pointed out by the way.

[_krose]

... what the Supreme Court has already acknowledged. Obamacare is a tax...

Here we have one of the newest Big Lies spread by the right. The court ruled that the individual mandate (the rule that everyone who can afford it must buy insurance or pay a penalty) is constitutional because of Congress's right to tax. So the decent, honest right-wing talkers pounce on the word "tax" and tell us all that the entire law is a tax.

... and it's the largest tax on the middle class ever in history.

Wow. I had no idea so many people were planning not to be insured (the only way to be subject to the ACA "tax" is to choose not be buy insurance). Here I was, thinking people really wanted to have health insurance. Silly me.

All Republicans have to do is ask Obama why, if he's so keen on taxing the rich first, did he saddle the middle class with this huge tax?

Yes, I'm sure he will have no answer to that one. So clever.

[_Brackite]

From http://www.factcheck.org


No End to ‘End Medicare’ Claim

Posted on July 6, 2012 , Corrected on July 18, 2012

Democrats are still hammering an old, and since replaced, GOP proposal, claiming it would “end Medicare,” and cost seniors $6,000 more a year for their health care. The newest Republican budget, proposed by Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, keeps traditional Medicare — unlike his plan from 2011 — and the increased cost claim is no longer applicable to it.

...

Democrats have jumped on Ryan’s budget proposal since he first presented it in 2011. His plan called for a massive change to Medicare — stopping the current Medicare system in 2022 for new beneficiaries and instead launching a so-called “premium-support” system, where seniors would pick from a choice of private plans on a new Medicare exchange with the help of government-provided subsidies. Claims that this would “end Medicare” — claims that were usually accompanied by images of elderly individuals — left the false impression that the Ryan plan would get rid of any kind of insurance program for seniors.

Furthermore, this plan didn’t pertain to the seniors pictured in the attack ads — they would remain on traditional Medicare, with only new beneficiaries in 2022 and beyond joining the private system. The claim made our list of the “Whoppers of 2011,” and so far, Democrats are making a good case for its inclusion in our 2012 list. A Democratic super PAC used the claim again in an Iowa congressional race in February, and now Patriot Majority and the DSCC are joining in.

...

But the ads dig up that old claim about Ryan’s 2011 proposal. It’s true that an analysis from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office found that seniors on the private plans would pay more than they would under traditional Medicare. And the CBO analysis indicated that a 65-year-old in 2022 could pay about $6,000 more than he or she would for the year under traditional Medicare. The government subsidies would increase with the rate of inflation, which critics argued was not much when dealing with health costs that, for years, have risen much faster than the general inflation rate. Ryan did say that low-income beneficiaries would get more money from the government to help cover costs, but the details on how much and who would qualify were not yet fleshed out.

But Ryan’s new plan, released this year, is more generous in terms of what it would provide for subsidies, and it keeps traditional Medicare as an option for all beneficiaries, both current and future

...

The ads ignore the updated Ryan plan, choosing instead to highlight an old, and misleading, claim. The ads feature images of seniors, who wouldn’t be affected by either of Ryan’s proposals — the changes to Medicare wouldn’t be put into place until 2022 or 2023, and would only affect new beneficiaries at that time.

[Guest]

With Ryan, Obama is already on the defensive regarding the $700 billion in Medicare cuts that came with Obamacare and wasn't actually offset by anything else.

first, ACA didn't take $700B from "Medicare". it took it from Medicare Advantage, drug company overpayment, and other types of corporate welfare the GOP had managed to add to the system over the years. i have no idea what you think you mean by "wasn't actually offset by anything else", but in the world of reality cutting this waste helped offset the cost of ACA (but i can see why the concept of actually paying for new spending is just plain confusing to a Bush-era republican like yourself).

but whether you accept that reality or not, your point is moot anyway because [b]the Ryan plan, which Romney has endorsed, contains the exact same cuts.

(you may want to read that last sentence to yourself a second time)

[_palerobber]

From http://www.factcheck.org


No End to ‘End Medicare’ Claim

Posted on July 6, 2012 , Corrected on July 18, 2012

Democrats are still hammering an old, and since replaced, GOP proposal, claiming it would “end Medicare,” and cost seniors $6,000 more a year for their health care. The newest Republican budget, proposed by Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, keeps traditional Medicare — unlike his plan from 2011 — and the increased cost claim is no longer applicable to it.

um, this confirms that the 2011 Ryan plan would indeed have phased out "traditional Medicare" (just as democrats have claimed).

[_palerobber]

The "cuts" in Medicare aren't to services, but rather closing loopholes in the reimbursement system. It had wide bipartisan support.

indeed, all but four House republicans voted for these exact same cuts (and more) in April 2011 when they voted in favor of Ryan's budget.

[_bcspace]

Former Clinton White House chief of staff says Ryan's budget proposals are sensible, straight-forward, honest, serious.

[_Drifting]

Former Clinton White House chief of staff says Ryan's budget proposals are sensible, straight-forward, honest, serious.

Under his bio on Wiki...

Political party Democratic Party

So it's true...Turkey's don't vote for Thanksgiving...

Wasn't Bowles the guy who 'introduced' Monica to Clinton?