Hero or traitor?

[_moksha]

I think Putin did not put much stock in Snowden's actions because the intelligence agencies in all the other countries already knew the NSA was conducting this electronic surveillance. Heck, I even knew it because it was in the news about eight years before.

However, the transcripts did establish that the NSA has lied to Congress repeatedly, so disestablishing the official denial is as treasonous as a Mormon revealing some of Joseph Smith's unknown ancestors (when we all know he was chaste).

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Maybe your guy Zimmerman should start tailing Snowden.

Only if he starts wearing a hoodie.

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Doc, it is strange anyway that both the NSA and the German Federal Intelligence Agency have confirmed what Snowden said.

What claims, exactly did they confirm? Please be precise for conversation's sake.

And, if it were only nonsense, why the USA wants to put him as a traitor in front of court?

Non-disclosure agreement.

If everything (or the most) were a lie or half-truths?

You can be charged with espionage on grounds of "intent".

I know the NSA rather well (not ask in which connection I would never gave you on this an answer).

Thank you. You're doing the right thing.

And even then the NSA was capable of many. The NSA has had some listening posts and offices in Germany. Bath Eibling (Bavaria, listening post) Hesse (offices and listening post), Berlin (offices and listening post), to mention only some. And these were from the time of the "cold war". Even then heard the NSA telephone calls from Germans in East (DDR) and West (FRG). And the NSA was tangled up into some dirty things (together with the CIA which she otherwise hates).

Yup. They do a lot of cool crap to gather intelligence. The question is are they doing illegal crap?

- Doc

[_sock puppet]

Does a government has any right, to collect your personal data? In the USA or elsewere?

If you have nosy neighbor who sits on his porch day and night and watches when you you leave, when come home, and who visits and how long they stay, does he have the right to take notes. If he does, can he share them with whoever he wants?

Your phone company, cable company, post office, etc. are your nosy neighbors. Absent legislation protecting your privacy, their right to "take notes" and share the information with the government is matter of contact right. They own the meta data that you believe is your private information.

But with the US Govt getting it from phone company or cable company, it is not the nosy neighbor (such a company) deciding who it will share the notes with--the US Govt is demanding the nosy neighbor turn over the notes--even though there's no evidence a crime has been committed.

[Guest]

Snowden did correct in revealing the things that were directly intrusive into US peoples privacy, which clearly demands a warrant.

I haven't followed everything he revealed, but if he revealed things beyond that, then in that case he would have done wrong.

But, as some others have said, Snowden shouldn't have been the issue, the issue is that the Government (specifically liberals) went BEYOND the Patriot Act which is exactly what people were warning of, even though they were promised the Government wouldn't do with the holes in the Act.

I was never for these people, but the fact that the Government has gone beyond it's bounds, beyond the law, means those in government should be prosecuted. Snowden is being made a scapegoat by the liberal elite for exposing them.

[_sock puppet]

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” ― Benjamin Franklin.

[_ldsfaqs]

Does a government has any right, to collect your personal data? In the USA or elsewere?

If you have nosy neighbor who sits on his porch day and night and watches when you you leave, when come home, and who visits and how long they stay, does he have the right to take notes. If he does, can he share them with whoever he wants?

Your phone company, cable company, post office, etc. are your nosy neighbors. Absent legislation protecting your privacy, their right to "take notes" and share the information with the government is matter of contact right. They own the meta data that you believe is your private information.

Your example is entirely FALSE.....

What the government has done is the equivalent of your "nosy neighbor" putting surveillance equipment in your home recording everything, and then putting it into a database that they can then go back to and try to essentially frame you if they want, or use against you in other ways such as blackmail, etc.

Your example is of the government tracking "public" actions, which is not entirely unreasonable (depending of course). Your "private" information is private for a reason. The government has no business looking into that UNLESS they have "reasonable cause" of a crime or the commission of a crime and then a Warrant is obtained.

That is the LAW.... not only literally but morally. The Obama admin should be put in Jail.

[_cwald]

The Obama admin should be put in Jail.

I knew there was a catch.

[_sock puppet]

Does a government has any right, to collect your personal data? In the USA or elsewere?

If you have nosy neighbor who sits on his porch day and night and watches when you you leave, when come home, and who visits and how long they stay, does he have the right to take notes. If he does, can he share them with whoever he wants?

Your phone company, cable company, post office, etc. are your nosy neighbors. Absent legislation protecting your privacy, their right to "take notes" and share the information with the government is matter of contact right. They own the meta data that you believe is your private information.

Your example is entirely FALSE.....

What the government has done is the equivalent of your "nosy neighbor" putting surveillance equipment in your home recording everything, and then putting it into a database that they can then go back to and try to essentially frame you if they want, or use against you in other ways such as blackmail, etc.

Your example is of the government tracking "public" actions, which is not entirely unreasonable (depending of course). Your "private" information is private for a reason. The government has no business looking into that UNLESS they have "reasonable cause" of a crime or the commission of a crime and then a Warrant is obtained.

That is the LAW.... not only literally but morally. The Obama admin should be put in Jail.

Not quite. The information that is at issue is that which is clearly in the purview of the cell phone company or the cable company to collect. I do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy against such a company knowing when I use their service, which they provide. In my home, I do have a reasonable expectation of privacy--but not against those media that I introduce from a third party provider into the home or into my life elsewhere either.

My issues are with the government ordering this information from those companies, without there being any information that my information was involved in any crime. And no judge involved. That's the real issue here.

Perhaps a phone company would find a customer base of privacy lovers if it charged a flat fee per month rather than by minutes used, or from where used (out of area), etc., and then had no reason for its computers to be set to collect and log my calling information. If it doesn't generate that type of information, there is none of it for the government to grab.

[_Quasimodo]

Perhaps a phone company would find a customer base of privacy lovers if it charged a flat fee per month rather than by minutes used, or from where used (out of area), etc., and then had no reason for its computers to be set to collect and log my calling information. If it doesn't generate that type of information, there is none of it for the government to grab.

This is a very good idea! A flat fee equals no records of calls.

Of course this doesn't answer all the problems of surveillance. I'm quite sure that someone in the COB is reading every post on this board. I'm expecting missionaries at my door any minute with guns and handcuffs.