Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
_AmyJo
_Emeritus
Posts: 1288
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:23 am

Re: Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

Post by _AmyJo »

Philo Sofee wrote:I'm probably out of bounds here and I apologize if that is so however, Amy Jo you seem so mesmerized by science when it suits your purposes but ignore it when it doesn't especially when it comes to its lacking of evidence for your God.


I wonder if God has this election under his control?

He didn't pick the candidates. But he has just ruled out one of them. :wink:
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
Posts: 18519
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

Post by _EAllusion »

The A.I. program in question just measures social media engagement. Trump exceeds Clinton is what it finds. You didn't need a sophisticated program to know that this time around as both Trump supporters and detractors spend a lot of time talking about Trump. That's what his daily outrageous behavior causes.

The presumption that this is predictive of victory is an all to human inference and quite dubious.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

I strongly urge gamblers to take Clinton on the over/under. I am.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Res Ipsa
_Emeritus
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:37 pm

Re: Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Professor Lichtman is very likely to be correct again this election. The reason is that his keys will predict that Democrats retain the White House. Then critical key at this time is whether a third-party candidate gets at least 5% of the popular vote. I took a look at 538 a few minutes ago. It has Johnson's share at 4.8%. So, if you look at the keys today, they predict a Clinton win. Based on past elections, we would expect the share of Johnson's vote to be even lower than the polls say today. So, yes, the good Professor is likely to be right. But it's because, when all the votes are counted, the keys will have predicted a Clinton win.

I tried to research this A.I. story. I can only find the one news report. I was unable to find a record of this A.I.'s predictions in advance of past elections. We don't have any sort of track record of advance predictions of any kind that we can measure the A.I. against. We also don't know what supposedly makes this an A.I. and whether the label means anything other than some kind of model. But Rai himself points out the weakness in his methodology: it only measures the engagement on social media -- it does not differentiate between positive and negative engagement. So, when Trump tweeted that folks should watch a nonresistant sex tape, any responses to that tweet would be taken as evidence of the strength of Trump as a presidential candidate. By this measure, any internet troll could be predicted to win the election. The A.I. simply wasn't programmed to handle negative responses to tweets and posts.

AmyJo's wholesale refusal to consider polling data is, quite simply, denial.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Re: Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

Post by _Lemmie »

AmyJo wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:I'm probably out of bounds here and I apologize if that is so however, Amy Jo you seem so mesmerized by science when it suits your purposes but ignore it when it doesn't especially when it comes to its lacking of evidence for your God.


I wonder if God has this election under his control?

He didn't pick the candidates. But he has just ruled out one of them. :wink:

Look again. The prof's prediction is for the incumbent party now, based on the 3rd party vote level. Res Ipsa said it about as clearly as it possibly can be put:
Res Ipsa wrote:Professor Lichtman is very likely to be correct again this election. The reason is that his keys will predict that Democrats retain the White House. Then critical key at this time is whether a third-party candidate gets at least 5% of the popular vote. I took a look at 538 a few minutes ago. It has Johnson's share at 4.8%. So, if you look at the keys today, they predict a Clinton win. Based on past elections, we would expect the share of Johnson's vote to be even lower than the polls say today. So, yes, the good Professor is likely to be right. But it's because, when all the votes are counted, the keys will have predicted a Clinton win.

[my bolding added to Res Ipsa excerpt]
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Re: Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

Post by _Lemmie »

Res Ipsa wrote:The A.I. simply wasn't programmed to handle negative responses to tweets and posts.

Exactly. It measures a correlation, but if the underlying causal relationship changes, the correlation will not reflect the same relationship to the actual variables that resulted from past data analysis.

For example, suppose in this election, there is a candidate who posts on Twitter, on average far in excess and much more pruriently than any past candidate. This would generate a far larger level of engagement, but possibly a much lower likelihood that engagement would be correlated with voting decisions, for exactly the reason Res Ipsa stated above.

Also, in a world where all types of media interaction and engagement are constantly changing and evolving, using a backward looking model (such as regression modeling based on past results) is not going to work as well as a model where forward looking variables are considered. For this additional reason, the second model is interesting and has potential but is in no way a definitive approach.

And last, throwing around the term 'A.I.' is meaningless. A computer model is only as good as the variables, equations, and modeling choices that the human operators feed into it. Even the 'learning' aspect of the model depends entirely upon the rules set for it by the (human) model creators.
_Brackite
_Emeritus
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:12 am

Re: Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

Post by _Brackite »

John Hogue has predicted that Hillary will become the the first American woman President. He has stated that she will win by about two percentage points.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_Bret Ripley
_Emeritus
Posts: 1542
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:53 am

Re: Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

Post by _Bret Ripley »

Kevin Graham wrote:The point is there are probably tons of folks who have correctly predicted these elections.
I don't know, Kevin. Even Paul the Octopus was only correct 11 times out of 13.
_MeDotOrg
_Emeritus
Posts: 4761
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

Post by _MeDotOrg »

It's hard enough to predict an outcome with the real thing, let alone artificial intelligence. Right now it appears Clinton is taking a slight ding, but not major. I don't think Trump will get enough undecideds from this story to climb the hill. But will the FBI investigation convince lukewarm Clinton supporters to stay away from the Polls? I think this could slim her margin of victory.

At this point I'm willing to accept Artificial Intelligence, McGruff the Crime Dog, Tea Leaves or an 8-ball if it will make this election take place tomorrow, instead of an entire week from now.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"We've kept more promises than we've even made"
- Donald Trump
"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
- Edwin Land
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
Posts: 18519
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: Trump is predicted to win by Artificial Intelligence

Post by _EAllusion »

AmyJo just doens't seem to understand this story.

Amy, the A.I. in question is not like Watson running a complex election prediction algorithm that spits out "Trump" as the final result. Instead, what we are talking about is a program that is designed to measure how much each candidate is being talked about on social media. Trump's name, to what should be no one's surprise, is what that program has decided is engaged more.

The programmer of this thinks that more engagement = predictive of election win. That's a false premise though. Even the programmer recognizes that's a flawed leap and acknowledges that maybe a candidate, such as one Donald Trump, being negatively talked about might not be a good thing.
Post Reply