How do armed teachers stop mass shooters?

[_DoubtingThomas]

By shooting them.

If you look at the North Hollywood shooting video the police couldn't stop the shooters. True story.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

[_subgenius]

One of the more famous mass shootings of recent years was at a military base...

by a military member...but please, continue to argue the exception.

[_Gadianton]

One of the more famous mass shootings of recent years was at a military base...

by a military member...but please, continue to argue the exception.

One of the more famous (future) mass shootings of recent years was at a locked down school.

Subs: by a teacher...but please, continue to argue the exception

[_DoubtingThomas]

and how come there aren't mass shootings at police stations? at banks? at grocery stores? at NRA conventions? at the lobby before a TSA checkpoint? at the flea market? hospitals?

at banks? What the Hell didn't you watch the video?
https://youtu.be/XhfzH_DxO4Q?t=8s

Or simply look up "North Hollywood shootout". How exactly would teachers stop someone like them? Arming teachers with handguns won't do jack ****, unless we arm them with military assault rifles.

Oh my gosh Republicans are so st***.

[_Markk]

By shooting them.

If you look at the North Hollywood shooting video the police couldn't stop the shooters. True story.

Because they were not allowed the same weapons the bad guys were using, they went to a local gun store for more better weapons. They had 9MM's, revolvers, and shotguns against body armor and auto weapons. Also, 2000 rounds fired, and only the perps died.

There was some wacko on one of the talk shows a few days ago that was actually arguing that police officers should be held to the same standards as citizens and should only be allowed to have a ten round max clip. He stated that if a cop could not stop the threat with ten rounds, then basically something is wrong. He did concede that SWAT could have more.

[_Markk]

and how come there aren't mass shootings at police stations? at banks? at grocery stores? at NRA conventions? at the lobby before a TSA checkpoint? at the flea market? hospitals?

at banks? What the Hell didn't you watch the video?
https://youtu.be/XhfzH_DxO4Q?t=8s

Or simply look up "North Hollywood shootout". How exactly would teachers stop someone like them? Arming teachers with handguns won't do jack ****, unless we arm them with military assault rifles.

Oh my gosh Republicans are so st***.

Why not just take the weapons from the bad guys? Wouldn't that be a better option?

[_Jersey Girl]

To all and anyone reading...

Which teachers and for what grades do we want to arm them? Do we also want to arm the folks who provide before and after care programs in our schools such as the YMCA programs?

Do we want to arm early childhood teachers in state run programs? For what ages? Do we want weapons and ammunition stored in the diapering stations of our infant nurseries?

If I have to lock up a personal object such as my hand bag in a preschool classroom, if all medications have to be under lock and key as demanded by state regulations, please tell me where you think I'm going to store a weapon and ammunition separately and how fast do you think I can get to the keys, to access both the weapon and ammo in an emergency, and what agency is now going to get involved to provide oversight, and how many check lists and drills do I have to account for via paperwork and reports on a monthly basis to facilitate guns in the school?

Talk to people who have actually lived their lives in classrooms.

Wouldn't it be more cost effective, safer, and the response time more seamless, to install safe rooms in classrooms as I posted about previously in the forum?

[_DoubtingThomas]

at banks? What the Hell didn't you watch the video?
https://youtu.be/XhfzH_DxO4Q?t=8s

Or simply look up "North Hollywood shootout". How exactly would teachers stop someone like them? Arming teachers with handguns won't do jack ****, unless we arm them with military assault rifles.

Oh my gosh Republicans are so st***.

Why not just take the weapons from the bad guys? Wouldn't that be a better option?

Exactly!! The problem is that we don't know who the bad guys are. So to solve the problem the government has to take away all big weapons from everyone. Ban all semi-automatic rifles and so forth.

[_Jersey Girl]

I think the people who're in favor of this policy just don't understand the reality of a firefight. They don't understand the physiological changes that happens when that fight or flight adrenaline hits you. Shooting at a stationary paper target under ideal conditions does not prepare you for that.

They WILL miss.

A firefight is, obviously, a stressful situation. So is combat in general. To train Soldiers to deal with this stress, the moment you arrive at Basic Training, you are under stress. Eating is stressful. Walking is stressful. Cleaning is stressful. Dressing is stressful. The point of all that stress is to acclimate you to stress. To teach you to operate at a level of stress 99% of people will never know. To give you the ability to keep your wits about you during high stress.

Then you arrive at your assigned unit. If you are Combat Arms, the stress training doesn't stop. They train under high stress all the time. They do constant stress-fire drills. They train with simunitions (real guns firing real rounds at a lower velocity and plastic filled with colored chalk).

Training is pretty exhaustive. It's all meant for you to shoot and maneuver in order to kill the enemy. Still, even with this training, you will sometimes get tunnel vision. Your vision clouds out everything but your pinpoint objective. Your hearing goes away. Your heart rate is through the roof.

When the fire fight kicks off, it's startling. Confusion is the default setting. You miss your target. In fact, what is your target? You're not really sure. What's beyond that when you miss? Who are you endangering? Soldiers have the advantage of all looking alike in the way we are dressed and equipped. Just don't shoot at anything that looks like you. Police mostly have the same advantage.

Now, let's take all of that and apply it to your regular civilian.

Not generally adapted to the high stress situations, not trained to deal with the split second decision of close quarter combat, not trained in stress fire situations; generally shoots at stationary paper targets on a range under ideal conditions with no stress. Not prepared for tunnel vision, the active shooter looks just like everybody else, they won't be wearing a uniform, doesn't do drills and exercises to handle an active shooter situation, doesn't think of target, backstop, and beyond because they haven't been told of that.

Now, let's add more adults with more guns to the mix. None of these people know who the "bad guy" is or who the "good guys" are. They see a person with a gun. They have no way to identify them... like a uniform. You are going to have "good guys" shooting each other. You are going to have police shooting them because the police have no “F” ing clue who these people with guns are.

Sure. Let's add more guns to a situation that 99% of the population is in no way trained to handle. In a situation that takes months and years to train Soldiers to handle.

What could possibly go wrong?

- Doc

Lord love you, man. Let's take me and put me in a preschool classroom of any given state owned and operated elementary school. There's an ECE program just like that 5 minutes drive from my house. All the younger children (preschool through K, 1 and 2) are in the same wing.

A bad guy with a gun shows up and I'm suppposed to what? Unlock the safe or closet that houses my weapon, load it, and put myself between an armed gunman with 15 little preschoolers crying their baby eyes out and hanging on to me for dear life?

In that situation, my job would be to secure the area and provide cover for the 15 preschoolers crying their baby eyes out.

Who in the hell is going to gather up the children, provide comfort and guidance, while I'm trying to get off shots from book corner?

AYFKM???

by the way, if I approached you yourself (I'm guessing your size and athletic conditions based on previous health/wellness related conversations), with a weapon in my hands aimed at you, you could disarm me in one movement.

And then, where would me and my little flock be?

D.E.A.D.

That's where. I'd much rather have a safe room installed in my classroom because I can guide all of my little people and make them follow my direction in under one minute. Actually, I'd say I can get 15 in there within 30 seconds. If I can get them up and out the door for a fire drill or into two restrooms for a lock down in 30 seconds, I think I can do it in case of active shooter as well. Because I know how to guide them and they know how to follow me.

Why add one more deadly weapon to the mix?