"Give me liberty, or give me death!"

[_DoubtingThomas]

Sure! Many animals evolved to be afraid. Being afraid is good for survival.

Here's the thing... fearing death is baked into evolution. You will only survive long enough to reproduce if you care about survival. Every single direct ancestor you have cared to survive long enough to have kids. Some measure of caution against death is a requirement.

Every species of life we see today takes measures against death, otherwise, they'd have died off.

Yes we agree, but we do not know if animals really fear death. Animals are afraid of getting attacked.

[_DoubtingThomas]

We humans evolved to be afraid of death. Our survival depends on it.

So, by forcing the condemned to undergo their fear, it's actually a greater punishment than life in prison. . . contra your opening post.

Should Muslim terrorists willing to die for God get the death penalty?

[_Some Schmo]

Yes we agree, but we do not know if animals really fear death. Animals are afraid of getting attacked.

Well that's kind of what I was getting at in my original post. We're the only species (we're aware of) that knows it's going to die. I think the experience of consciously considering your own death is cosmically different than the flight response to danger. We don't think about threats, we react to them. Every animal does, and it's unconscious.

The more I think about consciousness, the more it reminds me of a computer monitor. What you see on the screen is a minuscule fraction of what's going on under the hood, it's largely the echo of something that happened long ago, and people confuse its reflecting processing with controlling processing.

[_Gunnar]

We may be the only species we are sure about that recognizes the inevitability of their own death, but I don't think it unlikely that some of the more intelligent species such as great apes, elephants, dolphins and whales are aware of the inevitability of their own death.

[_Some Schmo]

We may be the only species we are sure about that recognizes the inevitability of their own death, but I don't think it unlikely that some of the more intelligent species such as great apes, elephants, dolphins and whales are aware of the inevitability of their own death.

It wouldn't surprise me. I think animals, on the whole, are much smarter than humans generally give them credit. They have to have some brand of consciousness, thinking in sounds, smells and pictures... like we do, except very rudimentary. Their memory gives a clue that they're remembering their world somehow.

But that begs the question, do you need consciousness to remember? Anyone who's been drunk, blacked out and walked home knows... nope, not really.

So, it's a tough question. When I look at my dog, it sure feels like something's going on inside that head, especially when she looks directly at me. And she stares. It might be projection, but the way she stares at me... she's cookin' up something.

[_Gunnar]

We may be the only species we are sure about that recognizes the inevitability of their own death, but I don't think it unlikely that some of the more intelligent species such as great apes, elephants, dolphins and whales are aware of the inevitability of their own death. I think we have discussed before on this forum this website: Do Elephants Have Souls?
Caitrin Keiper, which discusses the intelligence of elephants and speculates on whether they are aware of their own mortality. Click on it if you are interested.

Other animals certainly grieve over the death of their offspring, whether they recognize the inevitability of their own death or not. A dead baby orca and the intense grief of animals.

[_Gunnar]

We may be the only species we are sure about that recognizes the inevitability of their own death, but I don't think it unlikely that some of the more intelligent species such as great apes, elephants, dolphins and whales are aware of the inevitability of their own death.

It wouldn't surprise me. I think animals, on the whole, are much smarter than humans generally give them credit. They have to have some brand of consciousness, thinking in sounds, smells and pictures... like we do, except very rudimentary. Their memory gives a clue that they're remembering their world somehow.

But that begs the question, do you need consciousness to remember? Anyone who's been drunk, blacked out and walked home knows... nope, not really.

So, it's a tough question. When I look at my dog, it sure feels like something's going on inside that head, especially when she looks directly at me. And she stares. It might be projection, but the way she stares at me... she's cookin' up something.

All interesting and relevant points, of course! Please see my amended post following your last post.

[_MeDotOrg]

"Give me liberty, or give me death!"

...was that Patrick Henry or Gary Gilmore?

[_subgenius]

"Give me liberty, or give me death!"

...was that Patrick Henry or Gary Gilmore?

Gilmore's last words were - "Dominus vobiscum"