CNN accuses black man of having white privilege

[_EAllusion]

[

Why not leave the argument at "privilege." Why do we have to include race when the truth is that whites are not always more privileged than blacks? I would argue that not all white men benefit from white privilege.

Because "white privilege" refers to aggregate social advantages on the basis of race.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Is there a scoring system in place we can use to assess individual advantage and disadvantage?

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

Is there a scoring system in place we can use to assess individual advantage and disadvantage?

- Doc

Since there obviously isn't, are you making a point with the lack of a scoring system to assess individual advantage and disadvantage? If so, what is that point?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

How do you aggregate the aggregate?

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

How do you aggregate the aggregate?

- Doc

Lots of things we talk about existing in aggregate aren't strictly quantifiable, especially as it relates to mental states. If I say that "more aggregate happiness is generally good" few people will dispute that despite not being able to measure individual happiness down to exact numbers. Few people will dispute that we can also make sound judgments about things that would promote or thwart aggregate happiness. If I said, "Indiscriminately murdering every 4th person would reduce aggregate happiness" this would not be a controversial statement even if I cannot reduce happiness into a score.

We can attempt to measure categories of racial privilege such as audit studies that give a sense of how much racial discrimination exists in a given area, but it's not possible to quantify it in the way you are asking. It seems like you think the next conclusion is, "therefore you can't say racial privileges exist in aggregate," but that conclusion doesn't follow at all. We can know there are social advantages, on average, to being white in America without having a privilege-meter. If that's something that is challenging for you, simply transport yourself back to 1850 and see if you still dispute that statement is true.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

That's a long-winded way of saying white privilege is impossible to measure and subjective, EA.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

That's a long-winded way of saying white privilege is impossible to measure and subjective, EAllusion.

- Doc

It's "subjective" in the sense that saying "it is a societal privilege not to be a slave," or "torturing babies for fun is wrong" is "subjective." Yes, but what do you think the implication of that banal observation is?

To be accurate, I said that it cannot be quantified in a "score" in the same way that happiness cannot be quantified in a score. That widespread racial discrimination exists in a variety of social contexts that advantages whites on average over various minorities is a fact that can be observed. You just can't place a "privilege score" on the value of this or how it has trickled down to the life experience of each individual.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Sure, but it's a pointless abstraction when you can't quantify it to the individual level as demonstrated by, well, anyone really. We're back to it being used as a cudgel to win an argument or to devalue someone's personal experience. You might as well create a hierarchy of oppression that encompasses every racial, ethnic, religious, sexual, economic, and gender category that exists in order to dole out victim merit points otherwise, again, the concept is rooted in bias and subjectivity.

Who's going to be the grand inquisitor? You?

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

Sure, but it's a pointless abstraction when you can't quantify it to the individual level as demonstrated by, well, anyone really. We're back to it being used as a cudgel to win an argument or to devalue someone's personal experience. You might as well create a hierarchy of oppression that encompasses every racial, ethnic, religious, sexual, economic, and gender category that exists in order to dole out victim merit points otherwise, again, the concept is rooted in bias and subjectivity.

Who's going to be the grand inquisitor? You?

- Doc

"Privilege" is a value-laden concept dependent on mental states and therefore "subjective." Whether it is a greater privilege to be a slave or master is "subjective." If you think this makes it unhelpful to talk about, this commits you radical position that value laden concepts dependent on mental states are unhelpful to talk about. This is certainly not consistent with your posting history, so you're at a fork in the road here. Either stick with this, or stop making value-based claims.

White privilege as a concept isn't about the level of advantage or disadvantage each individual has been given. It's about general societal advantages based on racial status we can say people experience on average. If you're white, it's hard to know if you personally benefited from racial discrimination in having your children treated more forgivingly in school discipline decisions . If you say something like, "I don't worry about that" that statement comes from a different kind of privilege. This is the security of knowing you're unlikely to face subtle racial discrimination in that area despite the existence of widespread racial discrimination. It's a near certainty you would have experienced that privilege. Remember, it's an umbrella term that refers to a package of socially situated advantages. Individual experience varies.

If you can't understand that it would be an advantage to be white in America in 1844 compared to being black because that assertion is rooted in bias and subjectivity, fine, but at least understand that you have an extremely radical stance. If you think that statement is false because there were black freeman and white slaves, you're missing what it is asserting.

[_EAllusion]

One of the fun things about Ajax's posting on this subject is that he thinks there ought to be widespread racial discrimination, but is highly offended at the suggestion it exists in favor of whites, because he thinks whites are overwhelmingly the victim. His position is quite different than yours Doc. His position is more like, "Actually, it should be called black privilege." He lives in an alternative universe.