A Senate Defense for Trump

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
Posts: 18519
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: A Senate Defense for Trump

Post by _EAllusion »

MeDotOrg wrote:When I think of the Republican reticence to back the President's impeachment, I think of Martin Luther King's observation: The arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice.
Counterpoint: Those backing Trump just might be viewed by history texts as founders of a right-wing authoritarian movement - scratch that - a patriotic movement that made America Great Again.

I think his progressive view of history is wrong and, in the face of significant backsliding, ends up being a harmful delusion. It allows people to tell themselves it'll work out in the end when that may demotivate them from taking action needed to make sure that it works out. It's a powerful motivator in the context of the civil rights movement gathering momentum and on the cusp of a great victory, but much less so when the opposite is happening.

Against the backdrop of world history, justice is fleeting and hard won.
_MeDotOrg
_Emeritus
Posts: 4761
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: A Senate Defense for Trump

Post by _MeDotOrg »

EAllusion wrote:
MeDotOrg wrote:When I think of the Republican reticence to back the President's impeachment, I think of Martin Luther King's observation: The arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice.
Counterpoint: Those backing Trump just might be viewed by history texts as founders of a right-wing authoritarian movement - scratch that - a patriotic movement that made America Great Again.

I think his progressive view of history is wrong and, in the face of significant backsliding, ends up being a harmful delusion. It allows people to tell themselves it'll work out in the end when that may demotivate them from taking action needed to make sure that it works out. It's a powerful motivator in the context of the civil rights movement gathering momentum and on the cusp of a great victory, but much less so when the opposite is happening.

Against the backdrop of world history, justice is fleeting and hard won.

I don't believe that Dr. King talked about the long moral arc of history as a call to inaction.

What I was saying was that the more complete picture we have of Donald Trump's Presidency, the greater the shame will be be for those who defended him. I think the majority of America's historians will judge him our worst President. And I think that judgement will eventually permeate most of our culture. But it's quite possible that a more complete picture of Trump will not happen until after the 2020 election, and if Trump wins in 2020, he could do serious (and perhaps irreparable) harm to the country. If he wins, he will have a lot more power controlling the media landscape.

If you think he is breaking bad now, wait until after he wins a second term. I'm not using the projected judgements of history as an excuse for inaction today. I'm just pointing out that the judgements of popular culture are based on more ephemeral judgements.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"We've kept more promises than we've even made"
- Donald Trump
"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
- Edwin Land
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
Posts: 18519
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: A Senate Defense for Trump

Post by _EAllusion »

MeDotOrg wrote:I don't believe that Dr. King talked about the long moral arc of history as a call to inaction.


No, not at all. He's using it as a triumphalist statement of conscience. But believing the statement does act as a way to demotivate in the context of losing ground rather than gaining it. After all, justice wins out in the end.

What I was saying was that the more complete picture we have of Donald Trump's Presidency, the greater the shame will be be for those who defended him.


That's a possible world, but you should do more to consider the possibility that Donald Trump is just a founding member of a right-wing authoritarian government that will maintain his cult of personality in a semi-permanent fashion. There are lots of rulers worse than Trump that are dimly remembered in a vaguely warm manner.

I think the majority of America's historians will judge him our worst President.


Historians don't judge authoritarian leaders in their own authoritarian societies as harshly as they deserve. There's a reason for that. Don't think the US is beyond this.

If you think he is breaking bad now, wait until after he wins a second term.
The long arc of history might bend away from justice.
Post Reply